Jan 27

The Islamisation of Britain (Part 2): retention and conversion

By Robin Phillips


Islam in the UK is growing at an astronomical rate according to a number of different studies over the last few years.

“Muslims in England and Wales are practising their faith and passing it on to their children at much higher rates than any other religion, including Christianity,” the Muslim News has reported.

In 2012, research published in a sociology journal showed that 77% of actively practicing Muslim families successfully perpetuate their faith to the next generation, in contrast to only 29% in actively practicing Christian families and 65% in other religions.

Summarizing the findings, the Muslim News reported that

The study, ‘Intergenerational transmission of Islam in England and Wales: evidence from the Citizenship Survey’ by academics from Cardiff University, also found that 98% of Muslim children surveyed said they had the religion their parents were brought up in, compared with 62% of Christians and 89% of other religions.
The team analysed data from the Home Office’s 2003 Citizenship Survey data, using 13,988 replies from adults and 1,278 from young people aged 11 to 15.

The multi-faith group, Faith Matters, studied the frequency of conversions to Islam. Researchers discovered that between 2001 and 2010, the number of British converts rose from 60,000 to 100,000. This includes a large numbers of female converts, which has nearly doubled from what it was ten years ago. (See the Faith Matters’ article,  ‘Surge of Britons Converting to Islam‘ as well as The Telegraph report.)

Another study, conducted by the US-based Pew Forum, estimated that the total number of UK Muslims is 2.9 million (4.6% of the population) compared with 1.6 million (2.8%) in 2001. If present trends continue, the Muslim population of the UK will swell to almost double within 20 years, reaching a staggering 5.5million.

If these figures are accurate, it means that by 2030 Britain will have more Muslims than the nation of Kuwait.

As these studies suggest, the growth of Islam in the UK is largely the result of both the strong retention rate within Islamic families as well as conversion from outside. (Immigration is also crucially important, but that is a topic that will have to wait for another post.) I want to explore both of these factors, beginning with the strong retention rate.


What accounts for the fact that 77% of actively practicing Muslim families successfully perpetuate their faith to the next generation, in contrast to only 29% in actively practicing Christian households?

No doubt there are numerous reasons for this, but one important factor is education. Professor Scourfield, one of the researchers in the recent study, was quoted in The Muslim News as saying,

“Muslim children tend to lead busy lives, often attending religious education classes outside school three or more times each week on top of any other commitments they have.

“They typically learn to read the Qur’an in Arabic. They also learn a great deal about their faith from parents and other family members. Religion can have an especially important role for minority communities in keeping together the bonds between families from the same ethnic background.”

Even when Muslim children go to the state schools, their parents make sure that they get a solidly Muslim education. By contrast, Christian parents in Britain can often be incredibly ambivalent about the formative role that education plays, sometimes even completely denying that it has any relation to how successfully the faith is perpetuated from one generation to the next.

In addition to this, there is the strong role that community plays in keeping children within the faith. Muslims are raised to think in very communal and corporate terms, so that to grow up and abandon the faith is equivalent to abandoning one’s own people. By contrast, Christians within Britain (and sadly throughout much of the Western world) tend to think very individualistically. Even when faith is perceived to be about more than one’s own spiritual interiority, it is still thought to be primarily an individualistic experience. Consequently, a Christian child can grow up and abandon the faith without feeling that he or she is also abandoning his or her own people. This makes apostasy a lot easier.

Another reason stems from the fact that the Islamic religion is so totalizing, affecting every area of life. It is woven into the fabric of every level of the culture in which a child grows up. British Muslims have been careful to preserve this culture within their communities and to prevent it being neutralized throughWesternization. This too has something to do with the strong retention rate. To grow up and leave the faith would be to grow up and turn one’s back on one’s culture.


If what I suggested in the last section explains why British Muslims have such a strong record at perpetuating the faith from one generation to the next, what explains the surprising levels of conversion?

Part of the reason is that Muslims take evangelism seriously. Batool al-Toma, who runs the New Muslims Project, has commented that “Islam is a missionary religion, and many Muslim organisations and particularly university students’ Islamic societies have active outreach programmes designed to remove popular misconceptions about the faith.”

The testimony given by many converts to Islam is that they are converting as a reaction to the decadence and moral bankruptcy of modern society. Many girls see Islam as an escape from the culture of partying and drunkenness that characterizes modern British society.

Another reason why are so many Britons are becoming Muslim is that the Islamic faith is an escape route from the decadence and moral bankruptcy of contemporary British society. At least, that is the testimony given by many converts. The Faith Matters survey cited above found that numerous young women (on average 27 years old) are going into Islam as a reaction to the moral licentiousness, drunkenness and ‘unrestrained consumerism’ of modern society. Quite simply, British young people are craving the stability that Islam brings.

Young men are converting for the same reason. “I liked the way the Muslims students I knew conducted themselves” says Paul Martin, a 27-year old convert to Islam. “It’s nice to think about people having one partner for life and not doing anything harmful to their body. I just preferred the Islamic lifestyle and from there I looked into the Qur’an.”

Lynne Ali converted to Islam at age 19. Her story is similar to scores of other young women who are attractive to the Islamic lifestyle. Having been what she calls “a typical white hard-partying teenager”, she felt a great void in her life.

“I would go out and get drunk with friends,” Lynne recounts, “wear tight and revealing clothing and date boys. I think, underneath it all, I must have been searching for something, and I wasn’t feeling fulfilled by my hard-drinking, party lifestyle.” When Lynne met her boyfriend, Zahid, at university, she felt that Islam offered an escape route. “I am so grateful I found my escape route…I am no longer a slave to a broken society and its expectations.”

Where is the Church in All This?

It is true that people remain in the Christian faith, or convert to it, for similar reasons. Yet as Christians we should be honestly asking ourselves some hard questions.

  • Are we doing as good a job as the Muslims in showing the communal nature of the Christian faith?
  • Do we also prioritize evangelism?
  • Are we doing as good of a job as the Muslims in proclaiming the totalizing nature of our religion, showing that the Christian faith affects every department of life?
  • Are we showing our young people that the faith is not just true, but lovely, so that when our children grow up they do not want to walk away from it?
  • Is there a noticeable difference between the lifestyle of Christians and those in the world, so that young people see the Christian faith as being an escape route from pagan decadence?

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  1. Dave

    There are plenty of businesses in this country run by Muslims. Can’t your deity rustle up a few more mice?

  2. Brin Jenkins

    Nothing like good constructive criticism, why not give it a try?

    1. Dave

      When there’s something constructive here to criticise, I’ll give it a shot.

  3. Kevin

    Interesting article. When I studying for the Legal Practice Course, almost every day I used to see 2 Muslim children walking down the road in the late afternoon with their Qur’ans and assume they were going to an Islamic class. One verse I keep coming back to in Bible because I know that we don’t live it out as Christians is: “But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.” Hebrews 3:13. Generally we only exhort one another twice a week, on Sundays and at home group meetings. When I first saw these boys I thought that as Christians, we need to do the same with our children, and we do need to be teaching our children about Jesus every day, but first of all we need to make sure that we are obeying Jesus ourselves and exhorting each other in the faith every day as long as it is called Today.

    There is definitely more room for us to look at how seriously Muslims take their faith and to learn from their example. However, we also need to remember that Islam is a religion that one can accept without any work of God in ones life, in fact Islam teaches that children are born as Muslims. Whereas to become a Christian requires a work of the Spirit and the Spirit cannot simply be invoked by Christian parents – he does what he wants. Having said that, parents diligently teaching their children is evidence of the Spirit’s work.

    1. karthick

      brothers,am a revert………..it means that accepted mother religion of human biengs(i.e)ISLAM.

    2. Ibrahim

      You sound like a good, educated, open minded christian. I think conversion rates are high also because the religion of Islam is extremely logical. Everything has a vast amount of wisdom behind it. Obviously wisdom from Allah. But you said “Islam is a religion that one can accept without any work of God in ones life.” Well God shows the path to whoever he chooses. Everything is from the work of God.

      1. Abudhakeer from INDIA

        ISLAM is not a religion is a rule of life….

        1. kafur

          Amen bro…………… it wont get any of them through the pearly gates im afraid

      2. kafur

        Ibrahim, I think you have misunderstood the statement posted. The person was not commending Islam in any way other than to say we should be as they are in determination. You’re religion wasn’t being praised per se’

        There is no “Wisdom” behind Islam when is thinks the earth is flat, The Sun goes down in a muddy pond at night, and Mohammed cut the moon in two with a sword! hahaha. No, no wisdom, only stupidity.

        1. Waseem Ahmad

          Kafur. U wont understand the teaching of Islam unless u dun read The Quraan. Let me tell u about what u have commented. I dun know from where u got this knowledge. But u r completely wrong about Islam and its teachings. Who said MOHAMMAD cut the moon with a sword? r u mad or what? dun make fake statement here. He has not used sword for this work. Even He never used sword. Neither in Quraan there is a word called Sword, even a single time. So, dun criticize anyone’s faith. When i will start making statements like this. u wont be able to handle it. Got it. u idiot. And yes u all christian have jealousy to Islam. U all know that this is the true religion and true path. That’s why people are reverting into this religion. Jesus is a messenger of GOD. He is not a GOD. Also he is not a son of GOD. ALLAH is single. He does not has any relative. We respect Jesus. We cannot be muslim unless we dun say that JESUS is true messenger of GOD. So, dun take it wrong. And try to read Quraan. U will come to know each and everything about ISLAM.

          1. Stephen

            There is an Islamic legend about ‘Allah’ cutting the moon in half at the request of Mohammed who wanted to prove a point to some people of Mecca who did not believe in his assumed prophetic status.

            In Surah 54 (The Moon) we read:
            ‘1. The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.’
            And later in the same book:
            ’29. But they called to their companion, and he took a sword in hand, and hamstrung (her – a camel).’
            So that is probably how the moon-split and the sword have become associated.
            I don’t understand why you would deny that the word ‘sword’ appears in the Quran (‘even a single time’) when it is easy to find out. Why lie about it?

            For those who don’t know, Muslims believe that every one of us was originally a Muslim so people don’t ‘convert’ they ‘revert’ to Islam. Yes, it is arrogant, but what do you expect?

            If Jesus is a messenger of God then when he says he is God he must be believed:
            John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
            John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
            John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
            John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: (‘I am’ is a reference to the name of God YHWH ‘I am that I am’)

            Especially as the Quran endorses the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, which were both complete and settled at the time of Mohammed:
            Surah3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
            Surah 5:66. If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.

          2. Rox

            There has been a misunderstanding about the sword, and nobody is actually lying. Stephen’s version is similar (but not identical) to a 2009 translation by Shaikh Wahiduddin Khan distributed by Goodword Books of New Delhi, and in England by Islamic Vision of Birmingham.
            “ But they called their companion who took a sword and hamstrung her”.
            One might argue about whether the word “hand” is in 54:29 or not !

            But there is a 1930 translation by Muhammed Marmaduke Pickthall (“a favourite with many English readers”) being distributed by the Islamic Dawah Centre International of Birmingham in a 2010 edition revised by Dr Sahib Mustaqim Bleher. This has simply:
            “But they called their comrade and he took and hamstrung (her).”
            No hand, no sword.

            The careful way in which the Pickthall edition puts certain words in brackets, e.g. “as you prevented (men) from the way of Allah” is reminiscent of how italics are used (quite annoyingly !) in some old-fashioned editions of the Bible, to indicate words which were not literally there in the original tongues. So my guess is that there is no sword in the Arabic. (How else would they have hamstrung the camel ? It must have been obvious). On the other hand, not only does Pickthall do this, so does Khan, e.g
            Khan 54:13 “We bore him on an [ark] which, made of planks and nails” ……
            Cf Pickthall “And we carried him upon a thing of planks and nails” that” …..

            There is a serious warning here for Muslims. They have made a great point of keeping their Book in the original Arabic completely unchanged, but this is not a practical solution in countries where those they are arguing with, and even the Faithful themselves, have very little knowledge of Arabic ! What they desperately need to do, given their wise preference for a standard edition, is to decide on a Standard Authorised Holy Edition of the Quran or Qur’an in English. Meanwhile, these two editions alone have many discrepancies, as well as different spellings of the title, which can lead to heated but totally unnecessary and fruitless arguments.

          3. Rox

            To be fair to Waseem, you need to realise that by “dun” he does NOT mean “done”, he means “don’t”. This makes perfect sense every time, except “unless u dun read The Quraan.”, by which he means “unless you have read the Quraan”.
            There would be a negative after “unless” in French and other European languages, actually.

  4. Dave

    Islamic methods of indoctrination are definitely more effective than most other faiths…

    1. Ahmed Abdul

      Islam is not a dogmatic religion, it is directional and complete way of life. Everything in Islam is traceable, authentic and verifiable to the Quran and the Hadith. Britons reverts find this easy with Allah’s permission( Wills) because they search for knowledge unlike some nationalities who ignorantly condemn Islam and Muslim.

      1. kafur

        The way you ARROGANTLY call people “Reverts”…….. you people are so cock sure and pompous. You have it completely wrong my friend. You need a Saviour,,,,,, Jesus.

      2. ssama

        huh… really? how is killing infidels and raping prisoners of war “complete way of life”…hell, how is it “a religion of peace”?

  5. Shafiqur Rahman

    I think rather complaining about Islamic Culture, its better if we pray to our Son Of God Jesus for these poor Muslims, who jumps for nothing and want to criticise other religion. I was a Muslim, I know how it works its a pure business. Given take policy if you do this you will get this reward otherwise you will be throwned in hell. However some Muslims are so ignorant when they see a Muslim converting to christian. They have killed many Pastors who tried to preach about Jesus. A muslim who thinks that he is the real God then why muslims have to kill non muslims. its TIT for TAT…………………….

  6. Singa

    Islam teaches us that there is no God but God …it is a very interesting dogma…that there is no other God but the true eternal God whom we should worship. This most important principle is the main theme of Islam, and throughout the ages it has captivated the hearts of millions of men and women alike.

    Muslims will not go astray cause they worship the True God, who has no form and is beyond our limited human imagination. God the Creator, a supreme being, whom existence has no beginning and has no ending. That is the God that is worth of worship. And not God who is a human, an animal or fire or anything which is created – they all cant possibly be God cause they themselves are created.

    1. Stephen

      Yes, and Allah is not the true eternal God, who created the world, became one of us as the Lord Jesus Christ, was crucified to forgive his believers their sins, rose from the dead and ascended into glory. Allah had daughters but no son. Allah is not Yehovah, the Almighty God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the Prophets.

      1. Afsal P A

        And yet Allah is yehovah, Allah is Paramathma , Allah is The Lord .

        Allah for your information is Arabic translation of God, as yehovah the hebrew translation

        1. Stephen

          Not true.

          ‘Allah’ means ‘the god’ just like ‘Il-lat’ means ‘the goddess’

          YHWH means ‘I am that I am’ and is the personal name of the Almighty LORD worshiped by the ancient Hebrews and Christians.

          1. Zohaib

            Then why do the Christians in Saudi Arabia use the word “Allah” instead of “YHWH”?

  7. Showkat ahmad (kashmir)

    A good and constructive article. Islam is complete way of life which other religions are not.e.g. A christain doe not know how to marry and how to treat spouse because Jesus(blessings of Allah be upon him) did not marry.

    1. Stephen

      Christians have masses of teachings in the Bible on personal and marital relations. But thank you for reminding us that Muslims have the example of their ‘prophet’ to follow. After the death of his first wife Khadija he had a dozen wives at one time. Of those, he consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine.
      Mohammed’s wives (in order of marriage):
      Khadija bint Khuwaylid (died when Mohammed was 50)
      And then:
      Sawda bint Zam’a
      Aisha bint Abi Bakr
      Hafsa bint Umar
      Zaynab bint Khuzayma
      Hind bint Abi Umayya
      Zaynab bint Jahsh
      Juwayriyya bint al-Harith
      Rayhana bint Zayd
      Safiyya bint Huyayy
      Ramla bint Abi Sufyan
      Maria al-Qibtiyya
      Maymuna bint al-Harith

    2. kafur


      You are an idiot i’m afraid, you know nothing about Jesus who is my Lord and Saviour.

      You come onto a Christian board, and spout such drivel. How dare you say “A Christian does not know how to marry”

      Is the “Way to marry” taking a little girl of six, “Thighing” her and having her play with your sex organs for three years (as Mohammed boasted about ), then at a mere NINE years old penetrate her with your organ, which is rape?

      Do you think that because we don’t rape children we Don’t know anything about marriage? We don’t honour Paedophiles in the uk…obviously you appear to do so!

    3. Javed

      you need to show respect for other’s faith..As a muslim i am ashamed to have you in my community.Right now you are the blacksheep..Its your duty to respect others faith.

    4. Rox

      A Muslim does not know how to use a mobile phone because Mohammed (blessings of Allah be upon him) did not use a mobile phone .

  8. kafur

    “Are we showing our young people that the faith is not just true, but lovely” I think it would be far better to show that Jesus is Lord of all and lives in our hearts. Islam is just a “religion” of death…. there is no life in Islam, there is only a Casting out into outer darkness at the end. Islam is the religion that beheads all the souls spoken on in Revelation.

    We need to pray for these deluded people, and bring them before the Lord of all. We should not accept that Islam is growing for it is not… every child born is born a Muslim, but just as many “Converts” leave Islam when they realise that they have made a serious mistake.

    Millions are leaving Islam in the world every day.

    Do not be deceived by these Muslims who tell you that they have the “path”…the path of Mohammed leads only to hell.

    Pray without ceasing.

  9. Gungle

    can they offer the same opotunity to other faith in their countries?these guys are pretenders,they look nice in foreign countries but go to their countries to know who they are,
    you escape from alcoholism and end up being a suicide bomber? surely you shall end this way.

  10. Alessandro

    hello everybody from Italy: I ran into this article looking for information about the presence of Islam in different European countries. After reading carefully the article and the comments above, I would like to share a little story with you.
    When I was a boy I had a Muslim friend who was very interested in Christianity: he read and watched movies about Jesus and finally he was willing to become a Christian. He once went to the church to attend mass with his peers from school. But as soon as one of his “christian” friend saw him sitting on the pew, he told him: “What are doing here? you’re a Muslim, this is not your place, this is for Christian only!” He never became Christian.

    You’re wondering why people are embracing Islam and leaving Christianity in large numbers? well first of all let’s look at our own way of living our Christian faith. Muslims are welcoming anyone showing interest in their religion, what about Christians? Are they even interested in converting people when they don’t believe themselves in their faith? I recently read a survey in a newspaper which stated that many priests don’t even believe in God, let alone trinity or hell. So how can you think of inviting others to a faith when even its religious leaders don’t believe in what they preach?? I don’t know whether that is a shortcoming peculiar to the Catholic Church but I guess disbelief in God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Scriptures is widespread among Christians in Europe today.

    Christians everywhere in the so-called “Western World” are simply trying their best to hide and not be too “visible”. Who come to your house or start talking to you when you’re waiting for the bus to go to work? priests? not at all. It’s Jeovah Witnesses: they’re the last Christian denomination who still evangelises, spreading their message to common people, without any fear to “bother them” (even if that’s almost always the reaction). What I was trying to say is that we put aside religion from our life the most we could. Some people feel something is missing in their life (God, afterlife prospects, moral guidance) but there is no brother to show them the way. Where is this Christian brother? inside the church, waiting for people to come in and ask for help?? but Jesus didn’t stay in the Temple, he was out there among the poor, the suffering, preaching and rescuing. This void of religion is being filled by another creed whose adherents still holds more to their faith.

    Before to look at the Muslims, remember what Jesus said: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”. Become a good Christian, be a model for others and offer your hand to those in need, then you’ll see people coming to your faith. Jesus Christ hasn’t lost any appeal, it’s our society that turned away from Him.
    Best wishes to all of you

  11. nouman

    Reported by Anas (RA): The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “No one of you becomes a true believer until he likes for his brother what he likes for himself”. [Bukhari & Muslim]

    1. nouman

      The Prophet SAW said “Indeed the most perfect believer in faith is one who has the best manners and is the kindest to his family” #islam

      1. Stephen

        Mark 3:34 And he (Jesus) looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

    2. Stephen

      Now, where did he get that, if not from the Bible (the ‘Law and the Gospel’, as Quran puts it):

      The Law: Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

      The Gospel: Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
      30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

      1. Abdulqadir

        You seem to like QUOTING the bibles. Why not quote for example; Gen19:30 if you think the bible is from God?

        1. Stephen

          Gen 19:30: And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

          Lot (called ‘Lut’) is considered a prophet in Islam, and even though Muslims deny the story of his daughters’ incest with him, nowhere in the Quran is the story contradicted. And of course the Quran endorses the Old Testament (which it calls ‘the Law’) and the New Testament (which it calls ‘the Gospel’) both of which had been in existence, unaltered, for centuries before Mohammed. The Bible contains the whole of the book of Genesis. In addition, Peter, Apostle of Jesus Christ, described Lot as a just man, despite the incest incident (which he did not instigate):

          2Peter 2:7 And (God) delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked (in Sodom):

          Surah 3:3: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

          So what is your point?

  12. Graeme Hurlstone

    hello there..

    just read some our your wisdom words and they make me smile and to be honest make me feel better and that in its self is a good thing.

    and bless us all I have been reading and looking at our blessed country and the state it is in through quite a lot of reasons of which if I get a email back I will reply…

    all I will say its not far off the time of our gods sons birth and we all true Christians rejoice in his birth and give gifts to loved ones and be merry and go on and live our lives and honour his name and try and be as one as we can without being dominated as the quran says and yes…its is a dominating cult and not a blessed faith of Christian one that started way before islam…islam as no liking and no tolerance unless its islam..but I know if again if I get a reply back how we could all Christian faiths in uk and other countries slow and maybe even stop this decline of our lord god and his son blessed jesus…and maybe help ones too.

    anyway be well

  13. Noushad

    may allah forgive you all whom talking agaist islam
    allah see all the things ,even our thoughts…..

    1. Rox

      These are multicultural times when we all have to live closely together in the world more than ever before, and I think this question of “Are Jehovah, God and Allah the same ?” has got to be looked at sensibly.
      “May Allah forgive you for talking against Islam”, “May God forgive you for talking against Christianity”, “May Jehovah forgive you for talking against Judaism” is not really going to get us very far; and they, or he, is probably not going to be much swayed by such exhortations anyway.

      Many philosophers have tried to actually prove that God exists, some of them actively Christian themselves, some of them much more neutral, or belonging to another religion. Anselm had a go, and Descartes; Leibnitz and Ibn Rushd; Kant in his own way, and many others. Whether one considers their various arguments convincing or not, what comes out of this sort of thing is merely a basic absolute principal, which we might conveniently call “Paramathma” (borrowing a Jain term used by Afsal above) . It isn’t a fully-fledged human god ready to worship, with its own special attributes.

      Whether we see this theoretical or real Paramathma as Jehovah, God, or Allah, or in some other way, it seems to me is up to us. But if all these monotheistic religions believe fervently in one unique God for the whole world, it must be the same one ! It doesn’t make sense otherwise. What is different is the different ways that their traditions perceive Paramathma. Frankly, the most out of line is Christianity with its troublesome Trinity, which takes some explaining, but it was not invented for several centuries and has never been accepted by some denominations (although most of these perished as heretics). Informally, most everyday Christians probably do not give it a lot of thought, but think of “God the Father” as “God”.

      Reading the Quran, one is very soon left in little doubt that “Allah” (or in some translations “God”) is supposed to be the same as Jehovah or the Christian God, although there is a lot of criticism about how the Jews have disobeyed him and how the Christians have wrongly perceived him. Similary, even if Jews fail to recognise Jesus as the Messiah, I don’t think Christians would deny the significance of him being descended from Abraham and David as favoured by the Jewish Jehovah, although rather inexplicably through Joseph (Matthew 1 1-16 ), and the Old Testament is retained in the Christian Bible.

      Remembering that the Quaran is written as if dictated by Allah, consider Surah 2 verse 47 :
      “ Oh Children of Israel ! Remember My favour with which I favoured you and how I preferred you to all creatures.”
      [ All this is selected from the Muhammed Marmaduke Pickthall 1930 translation as revised in 2010 by Dr Sahib Mustaqim Bleher ]

      Surah 2 covers familiar ground at some length, for example :
      2:50 And when we brought you through the sea and rescued you, and drowned the people of Pharaoh in your sight…
      2.67 And when Moses said to his people: Allah commands you that you sacrifice a cow, they said: Do you make fun of us ? He answered: Allah forbid that I should be among the foolish !
      2.83 And remember when We made a covenant with the Children of Israel, saying: Worship none except Allah only, and be good to parents …..Then after that you slid back …
      2.87 And surely We gave to Moses the Scripture and We caused a succession of messengers to follow after him, and We gave to Jesus son of Mary clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.

      In 2:109 to 2:114 there is a discussion of what Jews and Christians say about entering Paradise, but note :
      2.112 Nay, but whoever surrenders his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them, neither shall they grieve.

      Certainly there are differences in how Muslims see issues such as the Trinity and the Virgin Birth , and the Resurrection and Ascension, as there are also amongst Christians, even within the Church of England. Jews do not value Jesus even as much as Muslims do. Yet for all this confusion, the one God they are considering, these various People of the Book as the Qaran describes them, must be the same god, merely their differing perceptions of the “Paramathma” whose existence some philosophers have arguably proved.

  14. Phil Crouter

    The truth of Christianity is revealed when the children of God (christians) show the glory of God.
    Lets do what Jesus commanded preach the word, set the captives free, heal the sick and raise the dead.
    When people witness the power of God doubs are dispensed

    1. Rox

      This is a trifle ambitious. If Christians did raise the dead in large numbers, or even from time to time, no doubt Muslims, atheists, and others would be very impressed by it.

    2. Rox

      God said : “Here is my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, on whom my favour rests”. Matthew 12:18.

      Jesus said : “But go to my brothers and tell them that I am now ascending to my father and your father, my God and your God” . John 20 :17

      Peter said : “Men of Israel, listen to me; I speak of Jesus of Nazareth, a man singled out by God and made known to you through miracles, portents and signs which God worked among you through him, as you well know”. Acts 2:22

      You can of course find other texts, which may or may not be as original and authentic as these, but looking at this selection, Muslims certainly do seem to have a point. Jesus does not seem to be the son of God except in a loose sense in which his “brothers” were also sons of God, and there is certainly no suggestion that Jesus IS God. So taking this view of him, which is at least possible, it seems consistent to agree that the God in question is the same as the unitary God of Judaism or Islam, even if one views him differently in details.

      Muslims also preach their word, Phil, and in the Middle Ages they were so good at healing the sick that medical textbooks such as that of Ibn Sina (Avicenna) were used in Europe until the 18th century .

  15. IanD

    To answer the question – think back to the situation up to the middle of the last century – Britain was considered a Christian country; most babies were baptised; every school began each day with a Christian assembly & prayers, etc.

    Such religion is of course not true Christian faith – a living faith of a repentant sinner in the crucified & risen LORD Jesus Christ. A formal “national” religion soon became unbelief as the century progressed, with its affluence & entertainment distractions. The Gospel of repentance & faith evident by godly living became lost is empty religion.

    The trouble is, a decadent Britain was/is still seen as “Christian” to adherents of other religions. Their religion is national & strongly indoctrinated by family & community pressure. And, of course, they are taught to see the national decadence as the fruit of “Christianity” corrupt & worthless

    They do not see their persecution of Christians in countries where other religions dominate as fighting against the living God. They see as stamping out a decadent religion – regardless of the godliness & faithful witness of their victims. Don’t forget Asia Bibi – sentenced to hanging for “blasphemy” when she reportedly said “Jesus died for my sins – what has Mohammed done.”
    May the readers here see the love of God expressed in Jesus – who lived, died & rose again for our salvation.

    Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

    “‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’

    12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

    1. Rox

      The problem or “trouble” which IanD highlights is often seen from the other direction. Many white people in England and other countries are not Christians. They see that extremist Muslims are opposed to Christians (rather as extremist Christians are opposed to Muslims) and they want to keep out of this. They don’t want to be labelled Christians just because they are white, and suffer the consequences. Very many people have sympathised with the plight of Sikhs in America after “9/11” .

      In a country where alcohol is not banned (and after all, smoking tobacco at least, and chewing qat, is not banned in Muslim countries) some people will drink alcohol. All Muslim immigrants must have realised this when they came to Europe. It has always been so, and in fact even Turkey produces and exports wine, some of it allegedly from a vineyard first planted by Noah (Genesis 9: 20). Noah himself behaved in an unseemly manner; dervishes whirl; and qat contains amphetamines. I don’t think we should be too ashamed of our culture, and most British people would resist covering up or restraining young women, or putting pressure on them to follow their parents’ religion. Would we want to make “apostasy” traumatic ? However, a very considerable restriction of public smoking has been achieved and has proved popular.

      It’s worth a look at “Faith Matters” :
      “ A survey of 122 converts last year showed 56% were white British, with women making up 62% of respondents. The average age at conversion was just over 27………….The majority of the converts saw themselves as both British and Muslim and did not feel disillusioned with British society and culture. “
      Excesses are excesses and sometimes happen of course, but we must surely keep to our own standards, not to Muslim standards. I can’t really visualise even the girls in the photograph as being at the very brink of eternal hellfire. Mohammed banned alcohol, but Jesus did not. We must allow him to know best.

      As IanD says, Christianity in Britain became more moderate with the increasing distractions of affluence and entertainments. If this were to happen to Islam in Britain, and it does seem to be going that way (although young Muslims might not admit it while their parents are alive), it might be a good thing for everybody, even if a few white women become moderate Muslims too.

      1. Stephen

        Like Samantha Lewthwaite perhaps?

        1. Rox

          No, Samantha Lewthwaite is not a moderate Muslim. The appearance of dangerous extremist Muslims is not in anybody’s interest, but I don’t think they are particularly likely to be white women. Can you think of any more examples ?

          1. Stephen

            Any female Muslim convert dressed in a hijab, niqab or burka.

  16. Michael

    There is no historical proof from durable sources such as archaeological remains and coinage that any Caliph before Abd al-Malik (end of 7th century) was a Muslim.

    That said, if Muhammad was the political and military leader they say he was, then his name would be found honoured on earlier artefacts. In fact, it is not.

    1. Rox

      This would seem to be an excellent point, but it is rather well explained by Richard Plant, who combines being a Methodist minister with knowing a great deal more about Arabic, Islam, and coins, than you would expect. There is sometimes a lot more to Methodist ministers than meets the eye.

      According to Plant, “The Caliphs inherited Mohammed’s secular and religious leadership, and in fact ‘secular’ and ‘religious’ were to early Moslems (sic) the same thing. Because it was a theocracy, the ‘real’ ruler being Allah, the early coins of the Caliphs are anonymous —-what matters the earthly ruler when there is Eternal truth to be shown through texts from the Koran ?”. [from “Arabic Coins and how to read them”. Seaby. 1973]

      This seems perfectly plausible to me. In fact, Plant has a picture of a slightly later coin which does include the names of all the first four caliphs along with the usual Shahada, and he reminds us that the first of them, Abu Bekr, fought the “infidel” both Byzantine and Sassanian. It was the second caliph, Umar or Omar, who conquered Jerusalem inter alia.

      The claim that these caliphs were not Muslims seems extraordinary ! As for Muhammed, it is quite difficult to find the name of Jesus too on durable archaeological remains, and when you do find it, nobody really knows if it is the right Jesus. (Does anyone known if Mohammed was a common name before Islam ?). Native Welsh princes were roughly the same date as Mohammed and later, but their names do not occur on coins except just one, Howel Dda in 950 AD. So there is no proof from coins that the earlier ones existed, let alone that they were Christians. There is no indication on the coins of some early Anglo-Saxon Christian kings that they were Christian, and in fact a famous gold penny issued by Offa (with his name on it) appears to be Muslim, having been copied from a gold dinar !!! All that glitters is not what you expect.

      1. Ahmad Zafar

        Mind your language rox its about somebody religion you are speaking. First learn about Islam than talk about it. Have you ever read Quran or Bible and understood their meaning.God has given you mouth for not saying false accusation about others. You cannot judge or say anything about religion with little knowledge that you have. May God grant you wisdom so you see life in different light. And our Caliphs are the best . They have done things that not even a pious one do during present time in our religion. You and I if would pray each day and night but will never reach their status. Each Muslim is proud of their Caliphs . If someone say bad for your priest how will you feel. And if you feel nothing than you are not a Christan. I have watched the movie king Arthur and I know how your priest use to treat people that don’t do what they ordered.

  17. Rakesh kumar

    Do you think there is any presence of God in Islam?
    Do you think there is any presence of Humanity in Islam?
    Do you think there is any presence of Respect for other community in Islam?

    He is challenging to kill 100 million hindu in 15 minutes:

    And how Hindus are surviving in Pakistan


    Some facts about Islam:

    1. Ahmad Zafar

      Assalamaualikum Rakesh. It is his personal views not view of islam. And there is God present in Islam and he knows all the things which a person say or what is in his mind. Islam is a total submission to God and His will. And Islam does not give an authority to kill a innocent or abuse him. For those who do that shall be punished by God in this world or Herafter as the God wishes. And nobody can force any one to join Islam because a person can only become Muslim if he accepts islam by his will and God knows every thing. And Quran is the best book of the world. And millions of people read it each day and follow it. Not only Muslim but many non Muslim read it also. And by reading it many facts about our day to day life, death, and life after death becomes clear. It also give calmness to ones mind. So please don’t be inhumanitarian and say Quran should be banned. It is a holy book and should be respected. And don’t be afraid of people but afraid of God. Because he is the only one who has created the whole world and every thing in this world. What has said is wrong. And God has given him mouth and he is doing its wrong use by given threats. And god is seeing everything. And please stop critising Islam first learn its teachings its not about killing people. It is a religion for making peace in this world. And when you will know about it you will love it like I do like all true followers do.

      1. Stephen

        For ‘God’ substitute ‘Allah’, people.

        1. Ahmad Zafar

          First of all, it is important to note that “Allah” is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word “Allah” being used where “God” is used in English. This is because “Allah” is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word “God” with a capital “G”. Additionally, the word “Allah” cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur’an, which is the holy scripture of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word “Allah” for “God”, even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word “Allah”, since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language that they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam – even though they have been translated in every major language – have been preserved in the Arabic language.
          It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word “El”, which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word “Allah” than the English word “God”. This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are “El” and “Elah”, and the plural form “Elohim”. The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word “El” is translated variously as “God”, “God” and “angel”! This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word “Allah” presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between “God”, meaning a false God, and “God”, meaning the One True God, is the capital “G”. In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the equivalent to the English word “the” (Al-) to the Arabic word for “God/God” (ilah). So the Arabic word “Allah” literally it means “The God” – the “Al-” in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital “G” in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word “Allah” into English might be “The One -and-Only God” or “The One True God”.

          1. Stephen

            We’ve been there and done that. ‘Allah’ means ‘the god’ in order to distinguish ‘Allah’ from all the other pagan gods in the Cube at Mecca. The real name of the God Christians and Jews worship is YHWH, commonly rendered Yehovah (or Yahweh) and translated ‘the LORD’ in the King James Bible. Not even ‘Allah’ appropriates that name! Nor, interestingly, does ‘Allah’ claim the name of ‘Father’ among the ‘beautiful names of Allah’, mainly because he denies having a son. But YHWH has a son, praise his holy name, the Messiah, the Christ, the Lord Jesus!

  18. John Antony

    Can you please clarify the following from Bible :

    1. In Bible, is there any line showing that christians can consume alcohol ???
    2. Did Bible says that “Chritians can eat swine???”
    3. “Jesus is God” did bible says ???

    Please clarify with the verse (Chapter) from the bible….

    1. Stephen

      1 Yes. Psalm 104:14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; 15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart.
      1Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

      2 Yes. Acts 11:6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

      3 Yes. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
      Mark 14:61 But he (Jesus) held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (‘Son of Man’ is a Messianic title, as the High Priest recognised.)
      Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
      John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
      John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:

      Do not forget, Quran tells you that Jesus is a prophet and to observe the Law and Gospel, so you must believe what Jesus said of himself in the Bible.

      1. John Antony

        Mr. Stephen…
        Q. No. 2.Did Bible says that “Chritians can eat swine???.
        I am asking only about the eating Swine (PIG) not other animals ???? and also any verse showing that we can eat swine..???

        Your above answer did not satisfy me, please clear it….

        1. Stephen

          The distinction between clean and unclean was there to show the separation of Israel from the gentiles. Jesus unites Jew and Gentile in his church by his blood. But to take the Apostle Peter’s vision literally it is also acceptable now to eat pork, shellfish and so on. Some Christians may choose not to, and to follow the Jewish dietary rules, but it is not obligatory in our faith for the reasons given.

  19. John Antony

    Mr. Stephen,

    Can you please mention which Chapter describes “But to take the Apostle Peter’s vision literally it is also acceptable now to eat pork, shellfish and so on” …., please inform…

    1. Stephen

      No, that was the application of God-given reason to the passage. If there were all manner of unclean animals in the vision, that includes swine. But, look, if you accept Jesus and become a Christian you do not have to eat pork if you would rather not.

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