A UKIP Councillor has been sacked for comments linking the recent floods with ‘gay marriage’.
Henley-on-Thames councillor David Silvester was suspended by the party on 19 January after blaming David Cameron for the floods and storms which have hit England and Wales.
UKIP initially said Mr Silvester’s views were “not the party’s belief” but defended his right to state his opinions.
But after protests from the party’s LGBT group he was suspended. Today he was expelled.
His house has been pelted with eggs and had a six-colour homosexual rainbow flag draped on it.
Ironically, Mr Silvester left the Conservative Party over David Cameron’s determination to force ‘gay marriage’ through Parliament. He made similar remarks during his time as a Conservative. He remains a Henley Town Councillor. UKIP, it must be said, opposes gay marriage and Councillor Sylvester has been accused of using party facilities to promote his views.
But was he right to make the link?
In Egypt, God sent hail on Egypt as one of the ten plagues:
Exod 9:23 And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
Elijah prayed for a drought and then prayed for rain upon God’s instruction:
1Kings 18:1And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth. 2 And Elijah went to shew himself unto Ahab. And there was a sore famine in Samaria.
King Ahab blamed Elijah for the drought, although the prophet put him right about where the real responsibility lay:
1Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? 18 And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father’s house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim.
Solomon heard from the Lord himself that God was both responsible for adverse weather and could be prevailed upon to lift it, but only as a result of heartfelt national repentance:
2Chronicles 7:13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
The Psalmist said that all our protection schemes and counter-terrorist measures are a waste of effort unless God himself is watching over us as a corporate group:
Psalm 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
So Mr Silvester is not out on a Biblical limb but soundly in accord with Scripture in principle. God can bring disaster on a land as a result of disobedience to his laws, rulers do bear responsibility, and they should lead the people, not into sin, but to repentance if they want stability and prosperity on their watch.
Whether the Marriage (Same-Sex Couples) Act 2013 is enough on its own to move the Lord to send storms and floods, whether it was the last straw after all the other legislation passed in our land in rebellion from God over the last sixty years, or whether the storms have just been an over-the-top part of our natural weather cycle and, in the case of the Somerset levels, bad management, only God knows.
But he was right to remind us that Goid is not mocked. The words of 2Chr 7:14, Psalm 127:1 and a host of other scriptures remain to warn us that we cannot expect God’s blessing as a nation, a family, a business or as an individual, if we hold his laws in contempt and walk in rebellion from him.
As for UKIP, many Christians will be wondering whether they are the haven of free speech and the natural home for disaffected Bible-believers that they seemed.
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Are there more homosexuals than average on the Somerset Levels ? In fact, taking the whole of the winter’s events together, God seems to be punishing only people who live near rivers for their wicked ways. I don’t think God would choose to do this, so it must be our natural weather cycle.
On the only hand, that part of Pharaoh’s repressive army which was crossing the Red Sea is the only part which got drownded . I suppose God might have directed the worst of the army to be in the water at the crucial moment, and he might have directed the worst sinners (perhaps retired) to Somerset and various coastal districts.
You don’t know the scriptures or the power of God, Rox. It’s not nearly so simplistic. The words of the Lord Jesus:
Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
David Sylvester had my prayers (though I did not remember his name – God knows).
My prayer was, when I heard of this hmm – probably a couple of weeks ago – that this councillor who had said the rain was a curse for legislation of same sex marriage, would be vindicated – though he was possibly wrong in his pronouncement – he had been brave enough to glorify God by standing up and stating his views knowing the ‘world’ would castigate him.
I don’t know how God will vindicate him – I don’t wish more misery on the flood victims – but God does vindicate His children and this vindication pours burning coals on the heads of their oppressors and scorners.
Why have people been so outrageously barbaric towards him in his own house? Just for his statement about the rain? Or has he breached the sanctity of homophobia? At least, we know they were not muslims!
Twenty years ago, after asking God how He could stop rain falling on England in the SW reaches; it did not rain for seven weeks, and the papers reported people who were praying for rain. I was no doubt motivated to pray that at that time so I could see that all these things are most certainly in His hands and man can no more save himself from the penalty of sin than change the weather to suit himself.
Let’s pray for David Sylvester, that he will be completely vindicated for his stand against corrupt legislation.
I think Mr. Silvester was unwise to single out homosexual ‘marriage’ as the one reason why God would punish Britain by sending these floods. There are plenty of other ways in which this nation has turned away from God. We must beware of suggesting that homosexuality is worse than any other sin. But his general point is exactly right. God does send judgements upon the earth. These judgements are supposed to be remedial- to bring people to their senses and to repentance. But when they are ignored, remedial judgements may eventually become final disasters. Read Amos 4:6-13.
I wonder how long these floods have to go on before people will consider the possibility that this country and its people need to repent before God. When I read Revelation 9:20-21, I’m not holding my breath.
How we need to be in prayer for this poor benighted land and its people!
Seems we easily forget that not only will homosexuality keep you out of heaven but that God instructed that those who practiced such things much be put to death under the mosaic law – this shows us how bad this sin is. Also, God destroyed Sodom & Gomorah for this sin of homosexuality. I do believe all have sinned and fallen short, because of this all stand condemned except those who repent and trust in Jesus. God judges sins accordingly and in righteousness so to say all sins are equal isn’t true.
It’s interesting that we’ve had the worst flood in over 248 years the first winter after our nation and leaders supported changing marriage to include homosexuals, it’s now in law. I believe this bad winter is some kind of judgement on our nation, not individuals. The impact of this flood will effect EVERYONE who lives here, not just those who have literally been flooded. One could argue that some of those houses build on flood plaines were built out of greed and foolishness?
The bottom line is we don’t know but scripture teaches us that God controls the weather so whether He sent the rains or just lifted his orderly protection for the UK – both are a form of judgements in my opinion. Secularists say it’s climate change, but who’s controlling the climate?? Is it chance random process or divine control? I believe it’s divine control.
Very good article Stephen. Thank you.
Well, if God really did create the world and all that’s in it, then he also created gay people. To speak against God’s creation in such venomous terms, as this website frequently does, seems nothing short of blasphemy.
‘he also created gay people’ – God did not create anyone hard-wired for homosexual or any other perversion. There is no evidence that homosexuality is inbuilt. Human sexual development is more complex than such simplistic sound-bites can comprehend.
You might also say God created extortioners and liars and thieves and adulterers and murderers and traitors and blasphemers and sabbath-breakers and idolaters. But that again would be wrong. God created people, in his image. The Bible says they all have a choice between following God’s ways and rebelling against them, between – as Moses put it at God’s command – life and death.
Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
And as the Apostle Paul says:
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
If he created all these different sinners, the idea was partly that good Christian people could love sinners, wasn’t it? Jane Glover (whether she is the famous musician or not) is right to indicate that Stephen doesn’t seem to love homosexuals, but maybe he does, in a Platonic way of course.
Plato was apparently a special kind of good non-Christian. In Como, the two prominent statues on the wall of the Cathedral are Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger, also good non-Christians.
Except God did not create people as sinners. Jane is not the famous musician, she is a secretary. If love is defined as wanting the best for someone, then I qualify for sure. If it is mawkishly fawning over them and going along with whatever they want, I don’t. As for Como, we shall have to bow to your knowledge of foreign travel, old boy, if not to your assessment of dead Greeks.
I thought the usual doctrine was that we were all created by God, and that we are all sinners from birth until we do the necessary thing to be saved from sin. So God must have created us as sinners. It’s not actually necessary to sin individually, because our sinfulness is inherited from Adam and Eve. Although baptism may help initially (depending on denomination), it is necessary to accept personal salvation from Jesus to be saved, as well as various other stipulations (depending on denomination).
Close, but it isn’t quite as simple as that! And sentence 2 does not follow logically from sentence 1. But it is necessary to believe in Jesus.
> ‘he also created gay people’ – God did not create anyone hard-wired for homosexual or any other perversion.
Well, firstly it’s only your opinion that homosexuality is a perversion. Secondly, people must have been created with sexuality in mind, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to procreate.
> There is no evidence that homosexuality is inbuilt.
So where does it come from then ?
> You might also say God created extortioners and liars and thieves and adulterers and murderers and
> traitors and blasphemers and sabbath-breakers and idolaters.
That’s not an illogical conclusion.
> God created people, in his image.
Which is so broad as to be open to a mass of interpretations. If the world has been created in God’s image and there are people in it who are liars and thieves and murders etc, then it would suggest that God is a liar and a thief and a murderer; I see something profoundly wrong with that idea. Or is this one of those bits of the Bible which (as my friend says) “Was written by a group of men with an agenda and is interpreted by a group of men with an agenda” ?
1 Two men or two women cannot procreate, and isn’t my opinion that homosexuality is a perversion. That is what the Bible says and it is what the construction of our bodies says.
2 It’s complex, because some abuse or trauma which might affect one individual deeply could be water off a duck’s back to another. But something interferes with normal emotional and sexual development. Elements of Stockholm syndrome can come into it – identification with the aggressor – which can explain why so many boys homosexually abused in children’s homes grow up homosexual themselves. However it happens, it is a tragedy.
3 Quite.
4 No, we are created in the image of God, not with the holiness of God. When you have read the Bible, that might be the time to start commenting upon it. It sounds like your friend has an agenda, to be honest.
> When you have read the Bible, that might be the time to start commenting upon it.
I have. Next ?
>It sounds like your friend has an agenda, to be honest.
Daughter of a vicar. I can only speculate as to what you think her agenda would be.
Sadly, being the daughter of a vicar does not make you holy or give you the mind of God. It sounds to me like she has some kind of grudgy feminist agenda. Men and women are not in competition, except in feminist dogma.
> Sadly, being the daughter of a vicar does not make you holy or give you the mind of God.
To be fair, neither does running a website which keeps calling judgement on women, Muslims and gay people.
> It sounds to me like she has some kind of grudgy feminist agenda.
Well, to be fair – the four gospels were all men. The twelve apostles were all men. Remind me which women actually *wrote* the Bible ? Their names have got lost in history. The only two people here I’ve ever seen posting articles are either you or Robin; I am assuming that you’re both men ? So the observation of men writing and men interpreting isn’t a feminist agenda, it’s an astute observation!
> Men and women are not in competition, except in feminist dogma.
Oh dear, sweeping statements without any kind of facts to back it up. Again.
Jane, we are entitled to pass comment on perjurers and abusers.
In real life, as opposed to life on Planet Feminist, life between the sexes is not a zero-sum game. The idea that there is a ‘battle of the sexes’ owes much to the immaturity of its proposers.
Were Chaucer or Shakespeare feminists ?
You make my point. The ‘battle of the sexes’ gives us a good laugh, but isn’t to be taken seriously as political dogma.
People are questioning why Ukip expelled DS. He wrote his ‘flood’ letter to the Henley Standard as a private letter, but the added ‘councillor’ and ‘UKIP’ was incorrectly attached to his name.
This brought the UKIP name into play. Ukip had every initial right to investigate something they had not approved, so they thought it correct to request for DS to restrain (for the time being) from saying anything more as they did not want their name attached to any controversy.
I believe DS is a God fearing person, but was he really being prudent when under suspension and investigation by UKIP, to then having an interview with the radio when he could have delayed this.?
I think he should have declined this until the investigation was complete. It has now been admitted by the editor of the Henley Standard newspaper that he was the one that turned a private letter (without permission or consultation with DS) into a political letter – such is the sad press.
If DS would have waited for this concrete proof (he must have had the original copy of his ‘flood’ letter) and clearance, and then spoke to the radio, he would still be with UKIP and given some esteem, but Ukip took the view that doing a radio talk whilst being temporarily under suspension and investigation, as being an act of disobedience and hence DS was expelled.
His expulsion was to the delight of the LGBT and it would not surprise me if they were behind a petition to try and get DS removed from Henley on Thames Town Council.
UKIP did not expel him over his private conviction, but because of his disobedience to their temporary request whilst under suspension.
If, when mixing with the world, the subject of same-sex marriage comes up, I simple say ‘where and how did you, I and all mankind obtain the gift of life’? from the bond of a father and mother, and that, and that only is marriage.
I found this simple statement in this secular world actually make people think and agree.
Great article! I too applaud David Silvester for his bravery in standing up for the Word of God. Seems like it’s only ok to be a Christian in this country nowadays if you have a wishy-washy approach to your faith that is more influenced by popular thinking than rooted in the Bible.
Jane Glover- please don’t take offence by this, but I think you might benefit from reading the Bible more closely or from joining a Bible study group. God did indeed make man in his own image, but he certainly didn’t create them liars and thieves and murderers. People BECOME liars, thieves and murderers because they commit those sins -they aren’t born that way (though that’s not to discount ‘original sin’). Sin “entered” the world (Romans 5:12) because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience. God didn’t make the world with sin in it, he made it good.
It is clear that calamity can come onto a country if it defies God.
The dreadful act of terrorism at Woolwich last year came the day after parliament voted for gay marriage. Moreover, the troubles in N Ireland flared up just months after the first legal abortions in the 1960s. As this nation continues to oppose God’s word then we will continue to see extreme weather and an increase in terrorism.
So are babies born with original sin or not ? Stephen says that God does not create people as sinners, I wrote “I thought the usual doctrine was that we were all created by God, and that we are all sinners from birth until we do the necessary thing to be saved from sin. So God must have created us as sinners. It’s not actually necessary to sin individually, because our sinfulness is inherited from Adam and Eve.”. Stephen says that this isn’t’ quite right. It seems to agree with Laura, though, and Laura obviously agrees with me and everybody else that you can sin worse and worse as you get older.
If Jane Glover has read the Bible, then I think she is entitled to comment on it, as Stephen said. It’s a bit patronising for somebody who disagrees with her comments to insist that this is because she hasn’t read it properly.
I agree human beings are born with a sinful predisposition. I do not agree that God ‘makes’ people thieves, sodomites, blasphemers, etc, or that he created us ‘as sinners’. Our inherent sinful nature is part of our human condition, and that in addition with various stimuli affects the choices we make in life. We do not have sin more as we get older! It is possible to repent and sin no more, otherwise Christ would not have commanded that.
Sin is Sin in the eyes of God. We can give it any fancy name but sin leads to separation from God. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of the same issue. Men lusted after Men and going after strange flesh. This is Sin. God will punish any nation which supports Gays. Period.
Gods word is final.
Rox, I wasn’t patronising Jane (if you we’re referring to me), I’m sorry if it came off that way. My suggestion that she study the Bible more closely or join a Bible group was meant in good faith. I go to a Bible study group and I gain new understanding every session!
But if someone says, “If the world has been created in God’s image and there are people in it who are liars and thieves and murders etc, then it would suggest that God is a liar and a thief and a murderer” then it indicates a lack of understanding of fundamental Biblical concepts. It is impossible to debate more complex issues when basic doctrine is misunderstood like that.
With regards sin: as I understand it, you first have to distinguish between the ‘creation’ of mankind and the ‘birth’ of an individual human. Mankind was created perfect (without sin); but then Adam and Eve committed the first sin. This is ‘original sin’ which we are all born with because we inherit it from A&E. Then there are the sins that we commit, like lying, thieving and murder. So God did not ‘create’ us sinners. However due to original sin we are indeed born sinful. It is a tough thing to accept that little babies are born with sin, but it’s nothing personal, it’s just the ‘general sin of mankind’.
As for your comment about “sinning worse as you get older”, when I said that a person *becomes* a liar thief or murderer, I only meant as opposed to being born that way. Not that they turn into one of these things and it is final. Of course God offers forgiveness and washes away those sins if we ask him to 🙂
I am joining this a little late, but would like to comment on some of the issues already discussed if that is ok.
Nahum 1: 3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers……… 5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him. 7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him. 8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies. 9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end:…..
This passage clearly states that The Lord God sends floods and other ‘natural’ calamities as a judgement for the sin of a nation. So I have no problem believing that the floods of this year are a judgment because of the homosexual marriage law forced upon us by David Cameron. I have actually noted down quite a few incidences I have come across when judgement of some kind has followed some event to do with homosexuality or abortion (like Hurricane Katrina in the US).
It is typical of this godless nation that someone who speaks the truth is made out to be the villain. But God says:
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Isaiah 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
When God says ‘woe’ then we had better look out. Mr Cameron has indeed brought – or will bring calamity upon this country. Actually, Romans 1 makes it clear that when a country is so taken over by homosexuality as our country is – it is because God has already given us over to judgement.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,……24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,……26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
On the issue of homosexuality itself: Stephen has explained well that God regards this sin as very serious indeed. Under the Mosaic law He prescribed the death penalty because God desired to keep His people free from such moral uncleanness. (that is in Lev 20)
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you…
The New Testament is equally candid. It Clearly states that a practicing homosexual cannot go to Heaven:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
(NKJ:nor homosexuals, nor sodomites)……11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Jude: 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
To Jane I would repeat that indeed no one is born homosexual. That suggestion is a lie. There is no homosexual gene or any other biological phenomenon which would cause a person to be born ‘gay’. I have done a fair bit of research on this. The homosexual activists would love to find something- but after decades of looking- they have come up with nothing. The whole ‘born gay’ agenda is nothing more than propaganda to try to justify their behaviour. Think about it: the homosexual act is completely and utterly unnatural. The human body is designed for heterosexual activity – not homosexual. The anus is designed for the elimination of waste products from the body – not for sexual penetration; the lining of the anus is delicate and is subject to tearing when misused in this way – and this then opens the door for disease. There are many diseased specifically associated with homosexual activity- not least AIDS: and don’t argue about that one because it is now in the heterosexual community. There is also a high percentage of mental health problems and suicides among those who engage in homosexual activity. Not popular to say- but there are also a very high percentage of homosexuals who are paedophiles eg: the ‘man/boy love association in the US, which is a branch of the ‘gay rights’ movement. Some people are sexually aroused by people of the same sex, by children, by dead bodies etc…… They are all perversions of the sexuality between a husband and wife as designed by our Creator God
Further to that God is Just: he would not condemn a person for something over which they had no control.
Jane, what we have said is not our opinions- it is God’s opinions; and He as Creator has the right to make the rules.
Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
If you argue about this – you are arguing with HIM. I pray you get this sorted out.
God has written the Scriptures, not man. He may have used men to pen the words, but each word was from His heart; and His Laws are for our good.