Every leader of the opposition becomes a Privy Councillor and Jeremy Corbyn will be no exception, even if he is a life-long republican and joining involves kneeling before the Queen.
The Privy Council’s role is to advise the Queen in carrying out her duties, such as the exercise of prerogative powers and other functions assigned to them by Acts of Parliament, we understand.
But the Council is also privy to highly-classified security information and matters that frankly us ordinary folk never get to know about.
It’s quite an exclusive club.
Today it was reported that Mr Corbyn had another appointment which meant he could not attend today’s meeting. It’s been big news, but no-one should interpret his absence as a snub. Out of six hundred members, fewer than a dozen normally attend, although, as leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, Mr Corbyn should be there in future.
Each person asked to be a privy councilllor takes this oath (or an affirmation version of it, is they object to Almighty God. The candidate is asked, in the presence of Her Majesty the Queen:
You do swear by Almighty God to be a true and faithful Servant unto the Queen’s Majesty, as one of Her Majesty’s Privy Council. You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done, or spoken against Her Majesty’s Person, Honour, Crown, or Dignity Royal, but you will lett and withstand the same to the uttermost of your Power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty Herself, or to such of Her Privy Council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same. You will, in all things to be moved, treated, and debated in Council, faithfully and truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience; and will keep secret all Matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in Council. And if any of the said Treaties or Counsels shall touch any of the Counsellors, you will not reveal it unto him, but will keep the same until such time as, by the Consent of Her Majesty, or of the Council, Publication shall be made thereof. You will to your uttermost bear Faith and Allegiance unto the Queen’s Majesty; and will assist and defend all Jurisdictions, Pre-eminences, and Authorities, granted to Her Majesty, and annexed to the Crown by Acts of Parliament, or otherwise, against all Foreign Princes, Persons, Prelates, States, or Potentates. And generally in all things you will do as a faithful and true Servant ought to do to Her Majesty. So help you God.
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This is in quite old-fashioned language, isn’t it ?
The Queen here is really the Crown, the Head of State, the same thing in effect as the Res Publica or Commonwealth or Republic. I’m sure Corbyn is sophisticated enough to realise that, no matter what language is used. Nobody is going to call in the Yeomen of the Guard to stop a rogue earl shooting an arrow at the Queen while she is hunting in Windsor Great Park.
(An)tony (Wedgewood-) Benn was a privy councillor. Her pretended to kiss the Queen’s hand, but actually make a kissing noise by kissing his own thumb (which presumably was uppermost as he held her hand for kissing). This is trivial stuff. The Queen must have realised, but was more grown-up than him and did not mention it.
We live in a democracy, and necessarily this sometimes (in fact always !) throws up some people whom others would wish it had not. The middle-class public trembled when the first Labour government encountered the King, but they settled down very quickly.
” truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience”.
And you can be quite sure he will ! Probably not a bad thing at all in these meetings.
It was always said that MI5 kept a close eye on Harold Wilson, and you can relax and be sure they will on this fellow too, but probably no need.
I think it was written some time ago. Do you think they should bring it up to date?
They could have ‘Plus if there’s some trick going on what might dis her maj, you’ll be like” “No, not on my watch, that’s flat out of order, know what I mean?”‘
How does that sound?
No, not at all, I like it how it is. But if we all understand that it is old-fashioned language standing in for something more modern and relevant to the whole country, I don’t quite see what the problem is or why you have brought this up.
Actually, your ultra-modern version (couched in an entirely inappropriate register) does rather miss the point, being concerned with the Queen’s personal safety as if she was still the all-important absolute monarch of a simple renaissance country, which is not really what the modern Privy Council is all about.
You certainly seem to be on the ball when it comes to speaking to modern kids. Congratulations.
‘Dis’ means disrespect rather than assault. You have a long way to go to be proper ‘street’, my dear old thing.
I can remember the last time somebody said “dis” to me, and I remember very well who said it and where, so it must have been before 1990. I should imagine that this “proper street” changes in the course of 25 years, and I somewhat doubt if you are it . I’m not really trying.
You are quite right, though. To dis (or “diss”) means “to speak disrespectfully to or criticize.”. I get this from the Concise Oxford Dictionary, where the expression is described as “informal” . As you detected, I didn’t know that it was supposed to mean that.
The term may have mellowed, however, or maybe neither you nor the gentlemen of Oxford quite grasped its street meaning. When it was said to me all that time ago, it was said with an arrogance bordering on suggesting a threat of violence, as in “Don’t you diss me, man”.
Quite. So if Jezz becomes a PC, if he hears someone dissing da Queen, he is immediately to threaten them with violence, in a suitably street-cred way. In my new modern version, of course. As it is, when he has joined using the old language, he just reports it to the Privy Council.
Surely Jeremy Corbyn can decline the invitation to be a privy councillor on the grounds of being unable to take the oath with a clear conscience. If as a result he has to step down as leader of the opposition, all well and good. Why would a Republican want to serve in Her Majesty’s Parliament anyway? The only motive must be to undermine her.
Somebody who has a theoretical preference for a republic might very well want to serve in the parliament of the United Kingdom, which is what this principally is. Being “Her Majesty’s Parliament” is not its principal job description, and never was. It was originally all about representing the people, and how much tax they were willing to pay to the King,
Actually, if you tour the Houses of Parliament, you find that artwork quite opposed to the monarchy is surprisingly prominent, and of course there is a striking statue of Oliver Cromwell outside. This terminology was not in use at the time, but he was in effect President of the English Republic.
Oliver Cromwell was a monarchist – the Protector of the realm – his enemies included republicans/levellers – he knew the commons would be hopeless at running the country, as we see they are today. I would argue that the Commons now is as tyrannical as ever the Stuarts were. Charles I wanted to rule without parliament; our Commons has effectively rendered the monarch powerless and decimated the Lords as an independent body, thus ruling without any checks at all on its power.
Wouldn’t you rather pay tax to a visible monarch than to an unaccountable body of republicans (e.g. the EU…..)?
Oh yes certainly, I would like all my tax to go to Edward VIII if he had not abdicated and was still alive, provided he was not invisible,.
Um, have you ever counted up the monarchies in the EU ? There’s Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark of course, Sweden. I can’t think of any more. Norway is a monarchy, but not in the EU Switzerland is a republic, but not in the EU. In all these countries, taxes go to pay for the same kind of public services as they do in most countries, and do not go into the pocket of the monarch or president, although his expenses have to be paid.
I really don’t see what point you are making with this .
I agree that an hereditary constitutional monarchy is the best system, actually. Oliver Cromwell was, like Napoleon and so many others, an example of the kind of dictator you get in the end when this lapses, sometimes but not inevitably. I suspect that Busy Mum would have been a staunch supporter of Pétain protecting France.