David Cameron’s Muslim poster-girl, Baroness Warsi, has resigned from the Government over its policy on Gaza.
She wrote on Twitter earlier today: “With deep regret I have this morning written to the Prime Minister & tendered my resignation. I can no longer support Govt policy on #Gaza.”
Baroness Warsi represented the Government in putting out a candle at the Great War ‘lights out’ remembrance service in Westminster Abbey only last night.
Overnight also, Israeli forces honoured a cease-fire by pulling troops out of Gaza, their mission to destroy the tunnels which Hamas used to carry the rockets it fires into Israel accomplished.
So Sayeeda Warsi’s inability to continue to support the Government has arisen in the early hours when the engagement is over.
Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8th July with the stated aim of ending rocket attacks and destroying the tunnels. Gaza officials say the four-week conflict has killed 1,800 Palestinians. They refuse to distinguish between combatants and civilians. Some 67 Israelis have also died, mostly soldiers.
Lady Warsi had previously called on Twitter for more ‘international action’ to end the crisis.
On 21 July, she wrote: “The killing of innocent civilians must stop. Need immediate ceasefire in #Gaza. Leadership required on both sides to stop this suffering.”
Three days later she added: “Can people stop trying to justify the killing of children. Whatever our politics there can never be justification, surely only regret #Gaza.”
NO CONDEMNATION OF HAMAS HUMAN SHIELDS
What is absent in her simplistic tweets is any condemnation of the Hamas policy of human shields which deliberately puts women and children in the front line. Despite saying that Israel has a right to exist and to be secure, she is now calling for an arms embargo against Israel. She has also, in her resignation letter to David Cameron, said that the UK’s ‘approach and language’ during the Gaza campaign … ‘is not in Britain’s national interest’, a curious phrase which looks suspiciously like a veiled threat of domestic Muslim retaliation.
Colonel Richard Kemp has extensive conflict and peace-keeping experience. In 2009 he testified before the United Nations on a previous Israeli ‘Cast Lead’ operation that Hamas was using human shields and that they were ‘expert at driving the media agenda’. Although acknowledging that mistakes can be made, the Israeli Defence Force, he said, ‘did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare’ while Hamas ‘deliberately tried to sacrifice its own civililians’.
Two days ago Col Kemp wrote that ‘Hamas make great efforts to segregate their military casualties to preserve the fiction that Israel is killing civilians only‘, that ‘Hamas has a track record of lying about casualties’, of ‘Hamas forcing civilians back in once buildings have been evacuated’ and of ‘secondary explosions resulting from Hamas’s own munitions’.
POLITICAL FLIP-FLOPS
Baroness Warsi was also Minister for Faith and Communities. In 2012 she spoke against militant secularism said that Europe needs to be “more confident and more comfortable in its Christianity.” At the same time she has been an advocate for Islamic banking in the UK.
In the only time she ran for office, for the seat of Dewsbury in 2005, she distributed leaflets arguing that Labour’s lowering of the homosexual age of consent from 18 to 16 (under the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000) was “allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships”, and that homosexuality was being “peddled” to children as young as seven in schools. She backtracked by apologising for her leaflets last year, and said she was ‘on the wrong side of history’ and ‘on a journey’ on gay rights. Baroness Warsi abstained on ‘gay marriage’.
She has shown she can flip-flop as well as the historical Vicar of Bray ( – sung here), but on Gaza Sayeeda Warsi has returned to her Muslim roots.
Please pray for a Godly appointment to be made in Baroness Warsi’s place.
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Dear Christian Voice,
Thank you for your article exposing Baroness Warsi re Gaza and Israel.
Here is my letter to Jeff Jacoby and Torah Jews who oppose Zionist State of Israel. I support your position and this letter will show what is in store for the Baroness!
This letter complements your article exposing Warsi and Michael Savage’s to either stand with Israel or fall under Islam.
Blessings,
James Sundquist
http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com
Dear Jeff (Jacoby),
I know you have written about the Palestinian/Israel conflict. I am writing this to you, knowing that you are a Jew. (Wikipedia states that you are an Orthodox Jew by religion). But I am not suggesting you may not agree with me on some levels. This appeal is because I am a Christian, and am compelled to defend Israel and her land Promised to her. If any land is “occupied” it is the EAST BANK of the Jordan, as that land belonged to three of the Twelve Tribes of Israel and will belong to Israel according to Prophecy (as documented in my film documentary below).
I heard about the article about Israel not existing in ten years, as it was featured recently on Michael Savage’s national radio show.
I believe Israel will exist in 10 years, even were America to vaporize. Proof:
GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO STEAL THE LAND OF ISRAEL Slideshow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVKPTXtoyAc&feature=youtu.be
GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO STEAL THE LAND OF ISRAEL DVD
It was recently released and is now available at: http://www.cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=2538
The Christ said that attributing works of the Holy Spirit to Satan is defined as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and is an unforgivable sin, therefore eternally damned. Islam teaches that the nation of Israel is the “little Satan”, therefore they are guilty of this very warning. But Islam also blasphemes the Holy Spirit by claiming Christ was referring to Mohammad who would be sent as the Comforter, when he meant it would be the Person of the Holy Spirit that Christ would send. Secondly, Islam is a religion of the Antichrist, by the Apostle John’s definition because the don’t believe God can have a Son, which would also deny the Father. So Islam is doubly doomed (or as Craig Winn called Mohammad, in his book Prophet of Doom), and twice dead. Rick Warren believes that his Global Peace Plan can include Muslims. Islam’s Global Peace Plan in its final form will be only one nation for the entire earth without Christians or Jews and NO land or nation of Israel. But Christ’s Global Peace Plan will contain no Muslims and no Muslim Nations, for he, as the Captain of the Hosts will lead the armies of Heaven to bring the wrath of the Lamb judgement upon those nations surrounding Israel, making war before he reigns in Jerusalem and the Prince of Peace brings His Peace to the earth.
What it all boils down to is that this issue is ISLAM’S ESCHATOLOGY vs. BIBLICAL ESCHATOLOGY
Both religions claim that in the End Times that their religion will dominate the entire earth and obliterate the other’s religion(s). That is correct, the difference is Islam demands it in this Present Age by whatever means necessary, as is going on in Iraq. It is a kingdom now theocracy. Christianity is a Kingdom Come Theocracy, but only after Christ returns. Christianity commands Scripturally to only be witnesses to carry out the Great Commission by the Word of God. Both religions will ultimately entail billions being killed. Islam’s redemption and salvation is by their own shed blood and shedding the blood of all that oppose it. Christianity’s redemption and salvation is ONLY by Christ’s shed blood. BOTH religions teach violence on global scale. But Islam’s violence is for this Present Age. Christianity does not teach violence to bring about conversion. However, Christianity will become violent when Christ returns. In fact, Christ’s violence will make Islam’s entire history of violence pale in comparison, when he, as Captain of the Hosts returns leading the armies of Heaven to the earth, as described in Chapter 21 of the Book of Revelation. At the Name of Jesus, not Allah or Mohammad, EVERY knee will bow!
“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;” Philippians 2:10
Christ is the Prince of Peace, but it is not as the world knows. But when Christ returns he will be the God of War, and will make war before he makes Peace on Earth in his Kingdom Come, where he will reign from Jerusalem.
Shalom,
James Sundquist
http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com
Thank you James
Israel is not Gods nation. It was not given by God but by Politicians.
Please note:
“He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself::he that believeth not God hath made him a liar:because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.” 1John 5:10
“Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is NOT of God: and this is that spirit of anti Christ…..1John 4:2-3
Do the Jews confess the Lord Jesus Christ ? NO
Do they have a pagan flag flying over their nation ? YES
If they do not have the Son do they have the Father ? NO
“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath NOT the Father ” 1John 3:23
Jesus said their house was left unto them desolate and when He says desolate he means desolate.
Israel is a Spiritual house. 1 Peter 2:5 etc
Now I know that God has His remnant within the Jewish nation because He is faithful to His promises to the Fathers. And I know that according to scripture they will be grafted back into the true vine. But that does not make the nation of Israel as is today Gods people. They are not even true Jews if you search it out. Sincere Jewish Rabbi’s will tell you that this issue with Palestine is of the Zionists and they are evil men.
And bombing schools and hospitals children little children can never be excused. Did they have prophet direct them to undertake this war NO. Did their Prime Minister say they didn’t need God YES. Have they broken every International law YES.
You are constantly writing articles in your magazine re Sodomy. Have you looked at Tel Av iv ! Their disgusting representative in the Euro vision song contest, which I do not by the way watch, but was plastered over every newspaper. Their female Rabbi’s their sodomite Rabbi’s !!!! This is Gods Israel…… I think not !
Did you not see the meeting with Israels Prime minister and the Muslim leader whose name escapes me, meeting with the POPE. So here you have Israels leader shaking hands with enemy of God and His Son !!!
Will I pray for them to continue to commit genocide never. Will I pray that they see the light of The Gospel absolutely. Will I pray that the Palestinians and Hamas leaders see the light of the Gospel absolutely. This whole issue goes a lot deeper than you seeing. And to finish No I will not pray for someone to take a seat in Government who will condone ,justify and glorify the mass murder of innocent people.
The Jewish Mo shad have fearlessly gone into worse places that Palestine to destroy their enemies so why not Hamas ?? You are blind to the overall picture here and are condemning more innocents to death.
I’m from Northern Ireland. When the IRA kicked off all those years ago, because after all the English took their land by force. Would it have been acceptable to you that The Royal Force had flown over and raised Northern Ireland to the ground because the IRA were hiding there and forcing women and children onto the streets to cover up their actions !!!!!!
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Looks like we Gentiles are grafted in, not Jewish Christians.
Thank you Stephen: we now do not remain silent…..
Goodness me, the leader of Israel has done very much worse things than shake hands with the Pope !
Hasn’t our own Queen shaken hands with a pope or two ?
Good point, Rox. I’m all in favour of friendship.
I believe the Jesus & the Gospel to all nations fulfills & supercedes the Old Covenant. Peter warns those who reject their Messiah, Jesus, in the words of Moses:
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers , A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass , that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Stephen adds:
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool : what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things? 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted ? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
National Israel is of no prophetic significance – the people of God are believers in Jesus.
I think the point you are missing here Kathleen is that Hamas has been democratically voted in by the Palestinians. The IRA were not an established government in Ireland but I suspect that if they had have been and were firing rockets into Britain that there most definitely would have been some retaliation.
Stevens article is absolutely spot on and I thank God that there are some (but very few) journalists out there that do report the truth. I would suggest that you watch Hilary Clinton herself speaking on this issue. It will shock you.
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/i-am-shocked
They came to power, as I understand, either on 40% of collective votes across Gaza or on the strength of a coup d’etat. In any event they abolished the voting system there – when did we last hear of a democratic election in Gaza over last ten years?
Kathleen,
both Israel and its Government may be far from perfect – I speak as a Christian who is a critical friend of Israel – but as Stephen points out He has not finished with His people Israel. Or the Jews – it says in Scripture that Jews would turn to Him and accept His Messiah, even in these latter days. It is to Israel that the Lord Jesus will return in triumphant judgement when His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives; he will sit in judgement on those who have mistreated both the Jews and Israel.
Excellent Kathleen, the modern state called Israel is Not Israel proper, and Only Jesus Christ is Going to establish the gathering of his people, for One thing Jews are but one of the tribes that make up israel a large part of which are the English speaking peoples, Nothing about the state of modern Israel is Godly or good, it is worse than old apartheid south Africa for attrocities, it is proud and shall be abased even brought down low.
Some of us have a real down on Israel and the Jews, don’t we? Can they do anything right?
Some of us have a “real down” on Israel when it does do very wrong things, but not on all Jews, very many of whom have a “real down” on Israel themselves, especially as it is so uncomfortably bad for their own reputation when people make generalisations and drag them in.
The United States of America are an English-speaking people, but I find it extremely difficult to make sense of them as a tribe of Israel, or indeed as one “tribe” at all. Their genes come from all over the world.
Mind you, I can’t accept the British (of mainly Anglo-Saxon AND Celtic AND pre-Celtic origins) as a tribe of Israel either. What does Paul mean by “tribe” ?
I agree with most of what she says—–I cannot understand how Christian churches can ever seek to justify what is going on in Gaza!!
Michael, Hamas lie, they are terrorists, they use their own people as human shields, they rain rockets on their neighbours, and you can’t see how action against them can be justified?
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Stephen
Unqualified support for Israel no matter how much evil it commits can be pinned down to a doctrine called Christian Zionism which many Protestant churches accept.
But what is to say that Christian Zionism isn’t just another doctrinal deception like the prosperity gospel?
The obvious answer is that there are many scriptures supportive of Christian Zionism but then again as any theologian will tell you that there are just as many opposing it!
So do you solve this problem?
I just use my common sense. I know what is going on is wrong and I cannot see how it can be justified by Christian churches.
In fact what is going on is so wrong that I would venture to say that Christian Zionism is the most dangerous of all doctrinal deceptions.
Michael, it would be good if you would address my points about Hamas. I’m not into theological labels. I am just concerned to find what the Bible says.
Stephen
Hamas is one of several Arab reactions to the great evil visited upon that race in the last 65 years (and especially since 2001) by Israel and its American and British poodles.
If you beat a race into a pulp eventually some of them will have the testosterone to fight back using every means at their disposal–be it ethical or unethical.
I do not seek to justify anything done by Hamas but nor must their actions be viewed in isolation.
What I find truly amazing is that some Christian churches now labor under such a massive spiritual deception that they seek to SCRIPTURALLY justify the slaughter and destruction being visited on the people of Gaza!!
So it’s because Hamas have been oppressed that they put their women and children forward as human shields. It’s funny how the Jews have never done that despite their centuries of oppression.
Stephen, How does Buldozing houses with people in them constitute people being used as human shields? or shooting very young boys from a gun boat playing football on a beach? or perhaps the very proud Col Richard Kemp can explain why durring opperation cast lead Phosphorus bombs were used which is internationally banned, and how do these Bombs in public streets differentiate between men women and children???
It never fails to surprise me that people that claim that they are belivers are so blind. I think many of them really think they have replaced the Jews.. It brings to light that they have no light from the word of God, and use scriptures one liners to make a point, but show their dullness. The current conflict -Gaza/Israel. The hypocrite baroness is just another muslim flauntling her threats in the face of this nation, and its really sad to see some of the public bowing at their altar of fear. Thank God for the army of Israel, and may God who is their refuge and strength empower them to win and be victorious. Islam is a counterfeit religion who seeks to impose their evil on the world,and it would be a shame that in the light of all the exposure that is being made , people choose to be deceived.
Dear Christian Voice,
I appreciate your article regarding Baroness Warsi.
I am delighted that the Baroness has resigned and will not continue to represent the Government of our Nation who, no matter our Political views has a history of upholding justice and opposing those like Hamas who are not only a terrorist organisation but also oppress their own people and terrorise innocent Israeli’s.
The Baroness should not play a role in British Politics and continue to support a terrorist offensive against Israel.She has failed to apply standards to Palestinian Arabs which she applies to Israel. She cannot support an offensive against Israel and deny Israel’s right to defend herself. The Baroness will not be the first British Politician to display antisemitic attitudes so we should all celebrate her resignation and see it as a healthy step forward.
Michael Fryer
Could not agree with you more… It seems, if anything finding anyone who is a (moderate) Muslim and a public representative, or an MP are solely incompatible with each other..Which comes first, your duty to the public and party, or your duty to your faith? Speaking as a Christian, I admire her for the courage of her convictions, even though she is very wrong. I would have to follow my convictions to if I thought they went against my Christian principles too.
Having said that, where is her bleeding heart for the over 250 plus children and teenage girls abducted by Boko Haram in Nigeria? Where is her condemnation for ISIS who in the last few weeks have manage to operate with impunity In Iraq and Syria killing everyone including fellow Muslims who refuse to sign up to their extreme stance whilst also driving out Christians from the region? Hypocritical double standards springs to mind.
This should also sound warning bells at the heart of our establishment. Remember Lutfur Rahman raising the Palestinian flag outside Tower Hamlets Town Hall Building. We should be mindful for all those who are supposed to represent the British Public but clearly have their own agendas at heart.
A Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim. There are no moderates and if there are they will readily be conformed to the real Islam as being spread in the Islamic State right now.
“what is going on in Syria and now in Iraq. As the world knows, ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) is on the move – beheading, shooting, crucifying, and raping human beings who are considered by them infidels. Of all their “enemies,” Christians are the most hated. Iraqi and Syrian churches are being burned to the ground, Christians slaughtered.
At this moment, Syria is no longer a state. It has imploded. Some 12,000,000 Syrians are displaced men, women and children who have fled their homes, their jobs and who have lost all hope of a normal life. Food prices have tripled and assorted armed bands roam many parts of the country unpoliced. A generation of children is growing up in a moral moonscape of shortage and crime, never even entering, let alone graduating, elementary school.” (Jerusalem Post, 16May2014)
Where was the hon Baroness Warsi’ s protest over this especially the part where Christians are being driven out of centuries old places of residence, abused crucified and murdered. Her book says kill Jews and Christians our book says love your enemies not kill them. Minister for Faith and Communities! What a joke!
incidently
1 Hamas Tunnel needs 350 truckloads of building materials – (entering through Israel’s fictional blockade) That is a cost of 3 million US Dollars
So far the IDF has found 30 tunnels (total cost 90 million US Dollars)
With one truck load of these materials the Hamas government could have built
86 HOMES
7 MOSQUES
6 SCHOOLS
19 MEDICAL CLINICS
Who knows how many civilian bomb shelters?
Hamas uses children to build tunnels and 160 have reported to have died in the process.
The blockade is is not total although the Egyptian one on their border may be as Hamas is hated in Egypt. Hamas is an offshoot of The Muslim Brotherhood with the same genocidal aim of destroying Israel and killing all Jews as per the Koran.
2 planes (rockets) killed about three thousand people in USA 9/11. Response? The war on terror.
Result: (estimates differ widely see Wiki) at least 100 000 Iraqi civilians died and in Afganistan about 20 000 with a number in Pakistan also. Disproportionate response?
No – it was justified because they killed 3000 of ours who are more important than theirs.
What was/is your view on this baroness?.
To finish what about the trauma over the last year alone of thousands of Israelis including CHILDREN as hundreds of rockets rained down on them. I suppose baroness you would have Israel sit on her hands and not respond? Right?
Again, you’ll not get an argument from me on this.
The reason I used the term ‘moderate’ is because the media use it readily to describe the more ‘reasonable’ people within that faith, little realising that their is very little between the two in reality, that’s all. Best thing we can do however, is to defend Israel to others, respectfully of course; and pray for both warring parties.
We can all argue the ‘them an us’ aspect of it all, but Christ’s intervention is what is needed and his revelation of Salvation and peace for all men.
Read all of it Stephen !!!!!
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature,and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these ,which be the natural branches, be GRAFFED INTO their own olive tree.
Rom 11:24-25 and so ALL Israel shall be saved v26 As I said God has His remnant as he did the 7000 in Elijah’s time.
I am not boasting against the branches I am pointing out scripture. It is spiritual Israel which encompasses everyone who has accepted the free gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus. Not a nation set up by governments and funded by governments such as USA.
As for the Queen shaking hands with the Popes. If you ever noticed the fact in past times she was in black from head to foot. Reason being was to show mourning that the nation has left the ” Mother” church! But hey it has returned to her now and she is after all the Mother of “Harlots” Rev 17:5 and here you now have “Israel” also uniting with whom we are explicitly called to “COME OUT” of.Rev 18:4
Shaking hands is deeper than a literal hand shake …..to explain to the lady who thinks it is!
“But now they desire a better country,that is an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for HE hath prepared for them a city” Heb 11:16 And it not something created by man saturated in the Blood of defenceless children governed and financed by men!
God’s desire was first that through the Jewish nation others might know the true God and then He sent His Son the Son of His love that they might take the Gospel to the world. But they killed the Son . If they were the true Israel their work would have been to be proclaiming the Glorious Gospel of Christ Jesus. And if I were an unbeliever thinking that this was the nation of God I would have a hard job believing that He so loved the world He gave His Son. And what must the Palastinians think of this so called living and MERCIFUL God that “Christians” speak of !!!
The Romans killed the Son. And if you insist that it was at Jewish instigation, it was also at the instigation of the sin of all mankind. It was for our sin that Christ was crucified. To offer himself for others was what he came to do. To blame his crucifixion on one race or another is missing the whole point of God’s design and purpose.
Steven the Romans were used as they weilded the power in the land, it was instigated by the priests of the temple, Judas Iscariot did not get payed by the Romans did he? having said that there is some merit in what you have said about the universal gift from Jesus Christ who was Rejected of his own temple administators! have you forgotten that Jesus Christ gave us a clear indication that whilst Israel are Twelve Tribes and Not ONE! he warned that among Jews there are some whom call themselves Jews and are Not but are of the Synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
Nobody seems able to counter the word of the Lord in Jeremiah 31 which states that Israel will continue to be a nation as long as the sun, moon and stars continue:
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD
Stephen – when you read the NT you will see there is a continuity between the OT promises & the fulfilment in Christ. At the begiining of Acts we read of many thousands of Jews turning to Jesus – & being rejected & persecuted by the Jewish leaders. These believers in Jesus formed the “holy nation” of Exodus 19, that Peter claims for Christian believers in 1 Peter 2. The believing Jews comprised the church of Jesus Christ, with believing Gentiles being added.
Note the words of Jesus in his vineyard parable: “He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. ….. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
The whole old covenant system came to an absolute end in AD 70. The nation that calls itself “Israel” today is not the nation prophesied in Jer. 31 (nor elsewhere in the OT.) Christian believers around the world are the people of God – the Israel of prophecy. Note Lev. 26:9-12, quoted by Paul in 2 Cor. 6:16 & by John in his glorious vision of the new heaven & new earth, Rev. 21:1-7.
“It’s historicist theology. Don’t even begin to try to understand it.” writes Stephen, in a different context.
On the one hand we are told that the Bible is the word of God which we should all heed, but on the other hand we are told that we can’t possibly understand it. Quite apart from the Elizabethan English which some insist on, if Israel does not mean Israel, etc etc, there is very little chance of most people ever understanding it.
I have suggested before that a committee similar to those which produced the Authorised Version and the New English Bible should be set up to produce a new Bible with an indication of which passages still apply, and which don’t — now also, those which don”t mean what they seem to mean. I should imagine it would be difficult to get such a committee to agree amongst themselves, however.
No, it’s the theology you don’t need to understand. The Bible is perspicaceous. It interprets itself. It does what it says on the tin. Try it.
If the Bible interprets itself, then an awful lot of people have been wasting their time at best, or at worst made money and filled whole libraries fraudulently.
If the Bible was perspicacious, it would by definition give a ready insight into things (COD), but surely you would expect this ready insight to be always the same, or it wouldn’t be very useful for solving any particular problem .
Just read it. And use your brains. And pray to understand. It’s do-able.
I agree with all that has been said about the Muslim book and religion. I resent their groves being set up and built all over Britain. But please.know that Jewish men threw a woman to the ground and gave her a beating in front of her daughter ! WHY ? Well she was a Christian……..and they after all are God’s people. Where did it happen ? “Israel”
No-one said there are no sinners in Israel, Kathleen.
Groves ? Does Kathleen speak the same language as the rest of us ?
The only definition for “grove” in the Concise Oxford Dictionary is “a small wood or other group of trees”.
I haven’t noticed Muslims planting trees particularly, but I don’t care if they have. The more the merrier.
I think Kathleen means a non-Christian place of worship.
Oh, I see. By “grove” she means what the rest of us call “mosque”.
What does she mean by “But hey it has returned to her now and she is after all the Mother of “Harlots” ?
Who or what is the Mother of Harlots ? At first I thought it was the queen, but now I’m not so sure. This is so obscure that it really does need to be explained. You can’ t just publish stuff like this on the internet without a concordance.
It’s theology, Rox. In fact it’s historicist theology. Don’t even begin to try to understand it.
Do what I do, have faith in Jesus Christ, read through the Bible in a year using the Christian Voice Bible reading plan, do it again and again and let God teach you his own theology.
But who is the Mother of Harlots and why ?
That does warrant a little explanation.
Being accused of Replacement Theology does not bother me although it is really an exaggerated title if abuse. Nobody says the church has replaced Israel, only that the Jew and Gentile have been joined together in Christ is such a vastly more significant truth than mere nationalism. See what St Paul said about the Jews, on the one hand he was annoyed at their hatred of the Gospel but on the other he would have gladly been accursed if they, his brethren would be saved. Likewise the most important thing for Jews is to be saved. I. Comparison to that whatever we believe are their rights to a piece of land are really i significant.
Whatever your theology is regarding Jews, this is a matter of politics and war and there are blessings and curses from God to disobedient people. God used the evil Babylonians to chastise Judah and now he is using false religions to chastise both Israel and the Church.
I was not saying that it was the sins of the Jews that killed Jesus. We are all guilty before God. I’m stressing the fact that they had a specific work to do for the Glory of God and they did not, have not and will not do it.
Please note that when Jesus cleansed the temple of traders he said MY Fathers house at the end of his ministry he said YOUR House is left to YOU desolate. No longer God’s house. His house is the body of believers. And theJews do not accept that Jesus was God’s Messiah.
But it could be argued that their work was to deliver up Christ to be slain to the glory of God.
(I expect that’s a heresy somewhere, but it makes sense to me.)
And yes, Jerusalem and the Temple were sacked by the Romans in 70AD and left desolate.
By that time, the Temple was of course redundant.
But Israel could not cease from being a nation unless God lied to Jeremiah.
This has little to do with Baroness Warsi,. but how does the Jewish religion manage without a temple when it was so important to them before, and why have they not tried to build one somewhere else (New York ,perhaps, or Prague under Rudolf) ? It’s the sort of think Stephen would know .
Don’t forget that they don’t realise they are in the wrong.
The Temple has to be on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
And yes, of course, the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus has rendered the Temple and its sacrifices obsolete, but the Jews who reject Jesus, which is the majority of them, indeed do not realise that.
Thank you. But doesn’t the ritual of the religion require the temple ? A lot of it must have been completely missing for almost 2,000 years. Aren’t they in a position to rebuild one in the right place now ? Would their adherents go along with the old rituals restored in a temple ? There must have been an awful lot of changes to co-exist with no longer having one.
The ancient sacrificial rituals of Israel would require the Temple, but Christianity is the fulfillment of the Hebrew faith, thus making the Temple redundant. The Temple cannot be rebuilt so long as the Dome of the Rock mosque sits on or close to the spot where the Temple was. The absence of the Temple and its rituals has made the synagogue the centre of Jewish life.
Exactly, but how do the Jews get along without the ancient sacrificial rites ? They are not Christians, so the temple is not redundant for them. If they don’t do these things in the synagogues, would there be an appetite for them if the temple was rebuilt in the right place ? If anything ever happened to the Dome of the Rock, which is not inconceivable the way things are going, it would be quite interesting to see what happened, not only whether a new temple got built (there would probably be plenty of millions of dollars available to do this in style), but whether it was used very much in the old way when it was built.
They are a pragmatic people. And they disagree. Some would like to rebuild the Temple and others oppose that. THIS PAGE says:
‘Traditional Jews believe that The Temple will be rebuilt when the Mashiach (Messiah) comes. They eagerly await that day and pray for it continually.
‘Modern Jews, on the other hand, reject the idea of rebuilding the Temple and resuming sacrifices. They call their houses of prayer “temples,” believing that such houses of worship are the only temples we need, the only temples we will ever have, and are equivalent to the Temple in Jerusalem.’
But THIS PAGE sets out why the Temple cannot in practice be rebuilt ‘until Mashiach comes’.
As to anything happening to the Dome of the Rock, don’t even go there. No Jew anywhere in the world where there is the slightest Muslim presence would be safe. And if any Western nation were involved, no-one would be safe.
These are the sort of things which get us Christians longing for the return of our Messiah. (Traditionalist Jews are waiting for the same thing, but they think it will be the first coming of the Messiah.) But I think we have a little while to wait yet.
A Kafir title for a Muslim? She enjoys the multiple benefits and honour of a Kafir status title whilst pretending to be a Muslim. What hypocrisy. She should read Sura 4:139 in the Koran. What a fake!
I always objected to having a Muslim as chairman of the Government as Islam is inconsistent with and contrary to our Christian constitution. Warsi was technically only Chairman of the Conservative Party, who formed a coalition with the Liberals, but that made her Chairman of the UK! I think in practice she had no power but it sent out a very bad signal. The nation is handed over by God to be run by the godless and Islam is but one aspect of the condemnation for our apostasy from Christ. If we get things right with God we will not have to worry about Islam, Rome, Atheism or any other of the false teachings.
As that wonderful poster from the Trafalger Era says in the Cockspur Street subway:
Britons! Fear God, fear sin and then fear nothing!
I dont understand how you can be a Christian and not support Israel. Lets face it most of the Bible is about Israel. God’s promises to the Jewish people still stand. If the Jewish people had not rejected Christ, we would not be here. Like it or not we are a second choice.
Certainly dont agree with Baroness Warsi but I admire here on resigning on a matter of principle which is rare in politics these days
Israel is a sign to the nations. See Ezekiel 37-38. The unique survival of the Jews under 1900 years of scattering and persecution and the restoration of Israel in 1948 and 1967 validates Scripture. No wonder the enemies of the Gospel whether Muslim, secularist or liberal Christian heretic all oppose Israel.
But they will not thwart God’s purposes.
The present nation of Israel is not the covenant people of God. If they were, they would believe in Jesus, LORD & Messiah. Read Stephen’s speech in Acts 7. As it is, believing Jews are rejected by the Israelis & families.
Why should we support such a nation? Support instead the spread of the Gospel, and those suffering Christians particularly in the Arab world.
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
There you are, then.