The latest study being used to support claims that homosexuality is genetic instead supports a multi-faceted causal sequence.
Even the Guardian is now retreating from ’caused by’ to ‘influenced by’ genes:
‘A study of gay men in the US has found fresh evidence that male sexual orientation is influenced by genes. Scientists tested the DNA of 400 gay men and found that genes on at least two chromosomes affected whether a man was gay or straight.
‘A region of the X chromosome called Xq28 had some impact on men’s sexual behaviour – though scientists have no idea which of the many genes in the region are involved, nor how many lie elsewhere in the genome.
‘Another stretch of DNA on chromosome 8 also played a role in male sexual orientation – though again the precise mechanism is unclear.’
Michael Bailey, a psychologist at Northwestern University in Illinois, is behind the research, and said, ‘The study shows that there are genes involved in male sexual orientation.’
Professor Bailey apologised a couple of years ago after allowing a live sex toy demonstration in his ‘human sexuality’ class, so he has something of a campaigning interest in this subject. But when we read on:
‘The gene or genes in the Xq28 region that influence sexual orientation have a limited and variable impact. Not all of the gay men in Bailey’s study inherited the same Xq28 region. The genes were neither sufficient, nor necessary, to make any of the men gay.
‘The flawed thinking behind a genetic test for sexual orientation is clear from studies of twins, which show that the identical twin of a gay man, who carries an exact replica of his brother’s DNA, is more likely to be straight than gay. That means even a perfect genetic test that picked up every gene linked to sexual orientation would still be less effective than flipping a coin.’
A ‘gay gene’ would be convenient for mothers who would wish to selectively abort such a baby, but it just does not exist. Bailey himself says there are ‘certainly other environmental factors involved.‘ The same external factors which would be like water off a duck’s back to someone can affect another individual deeply.
Peter Tatchell is also opposed to the ‘gay gene’ theory on the grounds that it enables an apologetic ‘but I was born this way so you should have pity on me’ line of argument. Peter argues that the line trotted out by homosexual activists that it is ‘impossible to make someone gay’ by classroom propaganda is false. He writes:
‘Removing the social opprobrium and penalties from queer relationships, and celebrating gay love and lust, would allow more people to come to terms with presently inhibited homoerotic desires. In this sense, it is perfectly feasible to ‘promote’ lesbian and gay sexuality and ‘make’ someone queer. Individuals who have a homosexual component in their character, but are inhibited by repression or guilt, definitely can be encouraged to acknowledge their same-sex attraction and act upon it.‘
If homosexuality is presented as normal, vulnerable adolescents may be persuaded to try it. And despite homosexuallity becoming flavour-of-the-month amongst politicians, the media, and in recent public attitude surveys, homosexuals still report mental health problems at a greater level that the rest of the population, and still blame them on everyone else.
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Not so long ago, homosexuality was illegal, one would be put in prison for it.
Then it was legalised, and became socially acceptable.
Then they legalised gay marriage.
I’m thinking of emigrating before they make it compulsory.
If one is born LGBT, why does the Bible command us in Leviticus ‘Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman – it is an abomination’.
Forgiveness and redemption are freely available. G.R.A.C.E.: God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense.
Leviticus also commands you put to death for eating shrimp and lobster. You are a CAFETERIA CHRISTIAN. You pick and choose the versus you wish to obey, and ignore the ones you don’t.
There is no such penalty for eating shrimp or lobster or anything unclean under the Israelite ceremonial law (which is not in force anyway for Christians: Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.).
If you think there is, show us where.
Here is the evidence as to why one twin can have separate sexuality, personality and/or illnesses.
Though they are born with the same genetic package, some identical twins have startling differences that present scientists with challenging questions about how we become who we are meant to be.
A recent documentary examines how, by studying identical twins who differ in disease or personality it can be shown that the environment and also luck and unknown factors play an important part in changing our genetic programming through the years. That is, how shared DNA can in effect be triggered in one twin, but not another.
The Department of Twin Research and Genetic Epidemiology Unit is located at St Thomas’ Hospital London and was established in 1992.
Using data collected from over 11,000 twins, the department research focuses on determining the genetic basis to common conditions such as osteoarthritis and osteoporosis, heart disease, obesity, stroke, cataracts, and back pain.
They also study the genetics of common behaviors. Together with collaborators, it has published hundreds of twin research papers in peer-reviewed journals.
The department has a database of 11,000 twins and studies a wide variety of diseases and traits and is always looking for more adult twin volunteers, male or female, identical or non-identical to help with their studies.
Hope that explains why one twin can be gay and the other straight.
[…] ‘Homosexuality Genetic’? Not Again! […]
Stephen, you are quite right. The arguments about eating shrimps and mixed fibre cloth are a misunderstanding of the old and new covenant. Often cited incorrectly.
However it happens, there are boys who from a young age are attracted to boys and girls attracted to girls. No place in the bible does it say that God will take away temptation or change orientation. And Jesus was tempted in every point. Is it blasphemy to say Jesus was tempted to men as well as women ? If you say yes, you limit the scope of the wilderness temptations to the “normal” sorts of things, the “respectable” temptations.
So, my suggestion to some folks on this site; how would you react if your son came to you at 25 and said, I’m attracted only to men? Would you condemn them and judge them, or would they already know from the fruits of your tree that that you had judged them.
Do you know any men and women in your congregation who are drawn towards same sex relationships? If you don’t , why not? Would they be comfortable sharing or would the fact that they were leading the children’s club suddenly fill you with horror (because you confuse homosexual temptation with temptation to abuse children).
Would you feel such deep shame that you told them not to share it?
There are young people who will leave your congregation, some will be your children – you won’t really know why, they won’t tell. Perhaps you will one day find out the struggles they had, and perhaps you won’t.
What really drives your passions? Is it compassion and understanding or is it a Daily Mail judgement of your neighbours. How will you cope if and when your boy or girl tells you the biggest secret in their heart ?
Tim
Thanks Tim, Although the reason why many people will not know anyone in their congregation who suffers from same-sex attraction is (a) we don’t normally share our sinful desires with others and (b) at 1% – 1.5% of the population, it is so rare that there probably isn’t anyone in that congregation unless it is numbering in the hundreds.
We also do well to remember that Jesus Christ releases from the power of sin as well the stain of sin, that he saves to the uttermost and that he heals today as then. No-one has to ‘stay gay’. But too few Christians and pastors know this and even fewer would offer such healing to someone who came and confessed to same-sex desires.
Stephen
The 1% -1.5% argument may or not be true; this could be of out self declared homosexuals, not those who hose secrets of orientation. WhenI was at university 25 years ago, I knew no one who was gay inclined or gay, there was never a gay member of any church either; true there were one to two bachelors who never had lady friends, were sensitive and creative and never liked sports – it doesn’t make them gay orientated of course, but if they were, how would you have known? Who would reveal themselves in the face of condemnation and judgement for the thoughts that floated through their head? Some members fell of the radar as with all congregations.
I have looked into “healing” in some detail; it is not the cure it purports to be, worse it presents false hope to anyone who struggles. There are some people who are on a spectrum of sexual attraction; in such cases they may be “healed”. But follow up of testimony from organisations such as exodus reveals that healing was short term, in fact the founder himself fell back. Pity the woman who marries the healed man- it happens- hope it’s not your daughter. Google makes it easy to find and follow up healing testimony. Of course you could say those who went back were never healed and were not released from power of sin; in which case you cannot select those who were healed as evidence since you have selected your sample.
Let’s not talk about the act, but the thoughts. Think how isolated the teenager who is gay in thought feels in your church. He prays and cries to god but there is no change. When asked about girlfriends he pretends to be waiting for the right one or pressure becomes so great he starts to court with someone he has no attraction for. As he gets older friends marry, he has no one to be close to. People think him choosey, he remains celibate and single and spares a woman from a sham marriage. He cannot share, because of the judgement of others, even tho he is celibate. As time moves on it’s not sex, it’s companionship and closeness that’s missing and isolation grows. This is your son, your daughter, your nephew or nice or friends children who can’t share with you
I’m not sure what you are arguing for, except despair.
Jesus Christ saves and heals, but some won’t take the risk. They miss ‘the time appointed’.
But for those who believe and obey and confess, salvation and healing are there in Christ.
Stephen,
I think that Tim is arguing for understanding and compassion for those who have same sex attractions. I don’t tink he was arguing for despair.
His attitude is of despair. He offers nothing at all.
Yes Michael, it is about compassion. If a man or woman is tempted to the same sex and is condemned for that, the despair is heaped on them by others. What horrid judgement; nowhere does the bible sanction this.
Stephen, what makes homosexuality the “special” sin that God will stop the temptation by repentance ? What is there special about it that prevents it being a besetting sin?
Pride is strongly condemned as sin in the bible, yet some folk are constantly tempted to it. Being saved does not deliver from temptation to pride. Similarly being saved does not deliver from temptation to homosexuality. There isn’t a normalised distribution of temptation resereved for the redeamed.
Did satan have power to tempt christ to same sex thoughts or just “normal” temptations.
Back to real life, real people in churches have real temptation. Some young people are torn up by it, is there no compassion for those who cannot make it go away?
No-one says this sort of despairing stuff about any other sin. Not about adultery, about violence, about thieving, about covetousness, about blasphemy or foul language, about pride, about lying does anyone say that the power of the Holy Spirit is unable to deliver that person from the power of that sin.
So what makes homosexuality the ‘special’ sin in the face of which the Holy Spirit is powerless to help people resist in your eyes?
You may be unable to make any temptation ‘go away’ in your own strength, but it is written:
Psalm 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
2Pet 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
I’ve been a Christian for 11 years and the more I read Gods word the more I realize it is the unchangeable truth of God. If God say’s something through His word then He means it so who are we to try and change it. If God says that man will NOT lie with man then we need to believe that’s what God means. The worlds view is different because it accepts sinful behavior because it doesn’t know the Creator so for that reason homosexuality becomes acceptable. However it will never be acceptable to God because He created a man and woman to live together under His divine covenant of marriage. Homosexuality goes against Gods creation and that which He made it to be. We are made in the image of God so if we are to say that homosexuality is acceptable then we distort the true Righteousness, holiness and character of God. In fact we would be saying that Gods truth is actually a lie. We would also be saying what Christ did upon the cross was an absolute waste of time and that He shouldn’t of bothered. When the truth is that Christ died to save us from our sin and to be reconciled through Him with God our Father in Heaven. Sin is the only thing that separates anyone from God and we need to know Christ for sin to be revealed to us. If homosexuality was of God then it would be in God it would be a part of who Christ is. But as we know God plainly tells us that homosexuality is a sin which means the only way out of it is repentance and then to receive healing.
Stephen
I don’t think from a there is anything special about homosexual attraction, that being my point.
All the verses you quote are about resisting temptation or overcoming by not sinning; not about being spared the temptation. Are you saying
I. God will deliver by giving strength to resist giving into the temptaion or
II god will deliver from having those temptations (all common to man)?
There is no biblical promise to stop any sort of temptation happening, including same sex attraction is there? Doesn’t that then mean it is wrong to judge others for temptation they may have?
No, only the 1Cor quote is about resisting temptation. All the others are about being delivered from it or overcoming it.
No Christian testimony I have ever heard speaks of still being tempted to steal, or blaspheme, or beat people up. You are singling out same-sex attraction and claiming people cannot be delivered from it. It is despair, it is contrary to Scripture and reason and it is a lie.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Christians must come to the point of obedience to the truth. The Bible says – Thy word is truth.
God’s gives the strength and will to obey his word by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Christians submit to God and his word out of love for God, their Lord and saviour.
“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Thy word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
“Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe….Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.”
Jesus did say to us, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly of heart : and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Yes, Jesus is saviour, deliverer, healer and friend.
Surely it is possible to be “born that way” without it being genetic. Pregnant women are told lots of things which they should not do in case it affects the foetus. Even at the last moment, there are birth injuries, some of which can affect the brain. So, although it is not understood how this might happen (and maybe it doesn’t), in theory somebody could be born with homosexual tendencies without there having been a genetic predisposition existing at the time of conception.
Take the case of autistic children. They are born that way, but nobody is at all sure that it is genetic. At one time we had both a prime minister and a leader of the opposition who had the misfortune to be caring for a handicapped child who was born that way, but there is no evidence that the problems were inherited from the parents.
Actually, Rox, they are told all sorts of things they should not do for the sake of their ‘baby’, not ‘foetus’.
A child in the womb only becomes a ‘foetus’ when someone wants to put him to death.
Yes, there can be emotional trauma in the womb. But even then, some external stimulus later in life has to be present. In societies where homosexuality is not feted to the skies, there tend to be fewer people exhibiting (if the expression does not fall awkwardly) those tendencies.
It says in the book that a foetus is the unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception. And these unborn baby mammals can get damaged, with any number of different results, not all of them understood. As you say, the final result of this in later life depends on the society the baby is born into (as it would with any handicap, for example, are wheelchairs or special schools available, how tolerant are people ?).
It may say that in the book, but in the ante-natal clinic, it’s ‘baby’ (not ‘a baby’, just ‘baby’ or occasionally ‘your baby’). Been there.
We aren’t there now, though, and the book I quoted is the Concise Oxford Dictionary. Anyway, a lady wrote to me concerning your earliler posting :
“What nonsense to say foetus is only used prior to an abortion. You hear it all the time in ante natal clinics.”
But hardly ever when staff are giving advice to mums.
They will never say ‘smoking is bad for your foetus’. They talk about ‘what’s best for baby.’
I agree Rox that homosexual inclination is from early years. I believe that it is possible to tell some boys who will be gay inclined from when they are young. There are some characteristics that are evident early on. I’m not saying it’s always the case or that all boys with certain characteristics will be gay inclined, but often it is true. Interested to hear others views too.
Simplistic assertions like that are not helpful to adolescents experiencing transient same-sex attraction. If it were possible to tell then then parents could make really sure that those children are not exposed to sexual abuse or to authority figures such as teachers telling them that ‘there is nothing wrong with being gay’. But it is best simply to protect all children from these damaging external forces.
[…] [2] < http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2014/06/17/the-latest-in-scientific-research-there-is-no-gay-gene>. And https://www.christianvoice.org.uk/index.php/homosexuality-genetic-not-again/. […]