Holding the Winter Olympics in Russia has turned into a jamboree for the professionally aggrieved.
Stephen Fry, described as an ‘actor, author and television presenter’ has written an open letter to Prime Minister David Cameron condemning what he describes as the “toxic mix of shaven headed thuggery and bigoted religion” currently ‘being used to demonise LGBT communities in Russia’. As if there are no shaven-headed homosexual thugs and bigots.
Nick Griffin, leader of the British National Party, told Fry to “get over it”. David Cameron said he was against a boycott.
However, A Downing Street spokesman said the Government remained ”greatly concerned“ about restrictions on the promotion of sodomy in Russia and said Mr Cameron had raised the issue directly with President Putin. President Obama has also raised concerns, as well he might. He has also declined to meet President Putin. What with whistle-blower Snowden and now this attack on his nearest and dearest, it would make any President concerned to defend immorality flounce out of a summit.
The flurry of interest has arisen since Russia’s lower house of parliament, the Duma, passed a law prohibiting the provision of information about homosexuality to people under 18. A fine can be imposed for promoting the Western man’s vice.
The WInter Olympics are due to be held in the Russian town of Sochi in February 2014.
By the way, has anyone else been struck by the uncanny similarlity between Stephen Fry and Nick Griffin? Can they by any chance be related? Or at least related to a common porcine ancestor? Not that we do evolution here.
Proving Godwin’s Law, that at some stage Nazi Germany will be mentioned in any online discussion, Fry got his over-the-top retaliation in first, saying:
“The 1936 Berlin Olympics proceeded under the exultant aegis of a tyrant who had passed into law an act which singled out for special persecution a minority whose only crime was the accident of their birth.
”Putin is eerily repeating this insane crime, only this time against gay Russians.
“I am gay. I am a Jew. My mother lost over a dozen of her family to Hitler’s anti-Semitism. I for one, weep at seeing history repeat itself.”
I, for one, weep at the misuse of the comma, but I shan’t be writing to David Cameron about it..
Petty, childish and spiteful. This is no more than a snide ad hominem attack on Fry (and Griffin too). As one commanded to love his enemies it should be beneath you, but, alas, it seems that nothing is.
Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, “Ad Hominem” means “against the man” or “against the person.”
‘An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of “argument” has the following form:
‘Person A makes claim X.
‘Person B makes an attack on person A.
‘Therefore A’s claim is false.
‘The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
‘Example of Ad Hominem
‘Bill: “I believe that abortion is morally wrong.”
‘Dave: “Of course you would say that, you’re a priest.”
‘Bill: “What about the arguments I gave to support my position?”
‘Dave: “Those don’t count. Like I said, you’re a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can’t believe what you say.”‘
Fallacyfiles.org says:
‘It is a frequently misidentified fallacy, for many people seem to think that any personal criticism, attack, or insult counts as an ad hominem fallacy.’
Comparing the looks of Stephen Fry to those of Nick Griffin – and to those of a pig’ might not appeal to you, but (a) it’s probably the sort of thing you need a Private Eye sort of sense of humour to appreciate and (b) it’s not an ad hominem attack on either.
To me, the issue isn’t homosexuality. It’s the nature of laws of this type.
Given recent Russian history, the Russian government ought to have given more thought to the wisdom of legislating against “propaganda” – a word with no objective definition. It’s a recipe for legal chaos. For example, the American pop singer Madonna was threatened with arrest merely for criticising this very law during a concert in front of an audience of paying adults, on the pretext that children might become aware of the criticism in the media.
Not every “anti-gay” law is necessarily a good law. And don’t make light of anti-homosexual violence in Russia, which HAS increased recently. That was not the intention of the law, but it has been one of the outcomes. The world is full of thuggish and aggressive young men who are looking for any excuse to cause trouble.
Madonna should not abuse her position in that way.
I know ‘the gays’ are claiming that violence has increased against them in Russia, but there is little evidence for that. In any case the main violence against homosexuals comes from within their own network as many studies and life histories attest.
As you say, the world is full (or, at any rate, has a certain number) of thuggish and aggressive young men, and a higher-than-normal proportion of them appear to be homosexual.
Whilst we are on the subject, I am sure you won’t relish me rehearsing the names of homosexual mass-murderers, but I can if you want.
How did Madonna “abuse her position”? It should be possible for people to non-violently criticise the law without being threatened with arrest – even in Russia.
You’ve missed my point. Vague laws against “propaganda” always lead to abuse. They are no different from laws against so-called “hate speech” in the west. The law can mean anything you want it to mean and is a form of censorship.
For me, the real problem with Russia’s anti-sodomy law is that they feel the need to introduce it in the first place. And why is that? It is precisely because politicians like Cameron and Hilary Clinton, ‘celebs’ like Fry, entertainers like Madonna and homosexual tourists are determined to export and promote sodomy world-wide. If homosexuals just wanted to do whatever they in the privacy of their own homes laws against promoting the vice would not be necessary. But they and their friends are driven to recruit, to proselytise, to shut others up through the hate laws you decry, and to insist that the rest of us, globally, accept and embrace their perversion.
Ah, I see you’re making a joke out of a situation where hundreds of LGBT Russians are being abused, tortured and denied freedom of expression. Way to go guys, very Christian of you.
P.S. I’ve never seen a “shaven-headed homosexual thug” in my life, pretty sure you just imagined them.
1 No they aren’t being abused and tortured. They are not even being denied freedom of expression. Just freedom to promote perversion.
2 You should have been in Brighton where they were throwing beer cans at us.
They are quite often being given a serious kicking, and those dishing out the beating no doubt feel justified and emboldened by the new legislation – but I’m sure you think they deserve it – because that is what Jesus would have done isn’t it? Beaten them up? According to The Bible Jesus had not one single word to say about same sex relationships. Not one.
It is also ironic that you take a similar anti gay position to Muslims – and in fact youy take a similar position to Islam on many issues – that does not surprise me – you are all brothers in hate & ignorance – rooted in the same primitive & backward Abrahamic religion.
You are a vile low life Mr Green. If Jesus was real – he would be thoroughly ashamed of people like you
Let’s have some evidence of both the alleged violence and its link to the legislation preventing the promotion of perversion.
Here is what the Lord Jesus said about sexual relationships:
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
And of course, becoming ‘one flesh’ in the full sexual and emotional sense given, is something two men or two women cannot do.
And here is what he said about those who reject his rule:
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
A day will come when you can frame a comment without lowering yourself to personal insults, Mr Boraman, but I am not holding my breath that it will any day soon.
The assertion that because Jesus is not recorded as condemning sexual perversion he approved it is bizarre. He had no need to mention that God forbade homosexual acts as his Jewish hearers took this as read. Homosexual acts are mentioned several times in the New Testament and always called sinful.
Whe the Gospel was preached to pagans, Romans and Greeks who accepted sexual immorality of all kinds, homosexual behaviour was preached against alongside other rebellious acts against God’s commands.
Read the letter of Jude where we are told that Sodom and Gomorrah received an exemplary punishment for ‘going after strange flesh’. And yes I have read Ezekiel 16, it seems that they were a wicked and godless society across the board. Rather like Britain today.
“They don’t just take their brains out when they become fundamentalists, folks, they take their humanity and compassion out as well.”
To paraphrase a religious booby in similar circumstances.
And perhaps you ought not to have been presenting to them so in Brighton. Bound to have engendered an enthusiastic response.
So you are drawing a parallel between Christians being murdered wholesale by the rebels in Syria and the possibility of a couple of homosexuals trying to spread perversion and being no more than verbally abused for their pains in Russia?
And you are also saying that if anyone presents a contrary view to that of the sodomites on the streets of the United Kingdom they should expect an ‘enthusiastic’ (for which read ‘violent’) response? That’s just saying the poor ‘gays’ can’t help themselves from rushing to violence whenever someone disagrees with them. And you may well be right.
So what were you doing to cause the beer cans to be thrown at you ?
Standing on the route of the ‘gay pride’ march holding placards with scripture on them. For example:
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Prov 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Psalm 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.
Nothing that any reasonable person could take exception to.
Your placards are classic, tactical passive aggression; the perfect way to provoke crowds of complete strangers with the insinuation that they are ‘wicked’, ‘vile’ and mentally defiled whilst innocently claiming to be doing so little that ‘reasonable’ people couldn’t possibly disprove. I think you would have been very disappointed to have gotten no reaction.
It’s the Holy Spirit who convicts of sin, through the Scripture, not us. As it is written, Titus 1:15: Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
As to the reaction, no, we should rather have calm and decent conversations, but ‘the gays’ cannot help themselves, I guess (see scripture above).
Stephen I hope you are well.
, I do not know enough about the situation to claim that torture/persecution/ abuse is going on. So I will not insist that it is. You are certainly making a very bold statement. Though it must be easily agreed that their is/may be anecdotal evidence that this is likely to be the case. Please kindly clarify your statement, giving appropriate peer reviewed (or equivalent) citation where required to qualify what you have stated in your first point above.
Without wishing to be rude, I request in advance only comment clearly on the points raised above. Tangents should be avoided by us both, as should ‘avoidance’ and claims of nit picking. I’m sure you will agree.
Please be so considerate as to so do here rather than by personal email.
The emotionally-challenged Fry and his supporters are alleging that something akin to what happened to the Jews in Germany, ie gas chambers, forced labour camps, starvation, etc, is being visited on homosexuals in Russia.
So it is up to you to provide evidence that such is the case, not for me to provide evidence that it isn’t.
Since you are such a fan of comments here having evidence to back them up, what evidence do you have that Stephen Fry is ’emotionally challenged’ ?
Suicide attempts are a good indication for a start, Jane. Homosexual attractions are another.
Well done Russia, for once you’ve done something right, its a pity puppet man cameron hadn’t the backbone to do the same, great to see a country stand up to the homosexual lifestyle choice brigade.
Study your history. The persecution of the jews came in stages. First slander, then violent thugs, then laws and finally concebtration camps. Russians are at the first stages, but we must denounce them lest theiy come to the final solution.
No, you study your history. Adolf Hitler became Chancellor in 1933. The Nuremberg Laws were passed in 1935. Kristallnacht was not until 1938.
But the big difference is, the Jews are a racial group, whereas homosexuals are defined by their perverted behaviour.
Left alone, and leaving everyone else alone, homosexuals would engineer their own home-made ‘final solution’ within just one generation.
So, since they cannot reproduce, they must recruit. That is what the anti-sodomy laws in Russia and across Africa are designed to prevent.
see Ezekiel 16:49, which claims the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor.) 13:13 do ya research and also aint it a sin to judge people? yet millions of Christians daily judge gay people so Christianity religion is made up u add to it constantly make your own rules up then contradict your selfs it also states that u cannot take another life but yet Christians kill there children or family members for being gay the bible contradicts its self in every way nothing is ever backed up its full off crap if anything i would say Christians are the nazis seeing as they have so much hate for gays
Ezek 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Now to the verse you left out for some reason:
Ezek 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Their pride, which you did mention (remember ‘Gay Pride’?), and their perversions were the reason for the fall of Sodom.
No, it is not a sin to pass judgment on people’s actions, or we should have no legal system, let alone the stuff of normal discourse.
No, Christians do not kill family members, that’s Muslims you are thinking about.
No, the Bible does not contradict itself, it is totally intellectually coherent.
No, Christians do not ‘hate gays’, although those homosexuals trying to recruit in schools do try our patience a bit …
And please learn to spell, use proper grammar, punctuation and capitalisation, won’t you?
Stephen – you are a very courageous man to speak the truth about Stephen Fry. Fry clearly needs to repent of his filth and turn to Christ for salvation.
Great article
Stephen you did a good job differentiating judging actions from judging people. Well done there, brother.
Good for the russians, sodomy is not natural and its not good for a nation. Scripture says that when a society normalises homosexuality and its attendent perversions it is drunk with ‘the wine of sodom’ All the russians have done is forbidden the selling of homosexuality to under18’s. To guage from the shrill and hysterical response of stephen fry and the obamanation you would think the russians had made it a capital crime to be unmarried. The russians are right and the west is drunk and foolish and has pressed the self destruct button.
We’re you at Cardiff Mardi Gras this weekend Steven? Standing there like the sad, lonely little man you are, whilst the world moves on and leaves you scrambling in the darkness?
You know, as an Atheist I almost wish there was a god, so that when your day of judgement came he’d take one look at you and tell you to get the hell out of his sight for being the hateful, spiteful man you are.
Witness the non-judgmental, loving spirit of homosexuality and atheism in that gentle post.