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  1. jsampson45

    I am not convinced that being in the single market and customs union is the same thing as being in the EU. It needs to be asked whether Britain can survive a cold-turkey Brexit. It may be necessary to remain in the EEA etc. until we again have what it takes to be an independent nation, then leave.

  2. Rox

    You may remember that many people were persuaded to vote for Brexit because of a manufactured scare about a hot-Turkey entry, a Turentry I suppose, in the current jargon. This was always extremely unlikely, and is now virtually impossible.

    Would a Slovexit be Slovenia or Slovakia leaving the EU ? Originally, Grexit was the prospect of Greece abandoning the euro, not the EU. It really is time all this nonsense was abandoned (along with any prospect of a Eurogate).

  3. Rox

    It’s the Labour Party which faces a particular challenge, and it’s called Jeremy Corbyn.

    After making a speech (no doubt written by somebody else) to “launch” the Labour Manifesto, emphasising that Brexit is now decided and out of the way, he was asked in a BBC interview whether he ruled out staying in the European Union if he were prime minister, and he FIVE TIMES refused to answer this question. Perhaps the Labour Manifesto assumes that he will not be prime minister. I can’t make sense of it otherwise.

    I do believe that the impossibility now of Turkey joining the EU merits a rethink, People have already forgotten it, but the possibility of disastrous immigration from Turkey formed a big part of the material circulating which persuaded people to leave. So I suppose I agree with Corbyn on this, but I hope I am clearer (bolder, even) in saying what I mean.

    1. Stephen

      IMHO, Jeremy Corbyn was always, like Theresa May, a secret Leaver. That’s because true socialists object to multi-national empires, I guess.

      1. Rox

        Yes, he was a secret leaver, but (hmm) what about the Internationale ?

        “Debout, les damnés de la terre
        Debout, les forçats de la faim
        La raison tonne en son cratère
        C’est l’éruption de la fin
        Du passé faisons table rase
        Foule esclave, debout, debout
        Le monde va changer de base
        Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout.

        C’est la lutte finale
        Groupons-nous, et demain
        L’Internationale
        Sera le genre humain

        Il n’est pas de sauveurs suprêmes
        Ni Dieu, ni César, ni tribun
        Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-mêmes
        Décrétons le salut commun
        Pour que le voleur rende gorge
        Pour tirer l’esprit du cachot
        Soufflons nous-mêmes notre forge
        Battons le fer quand il est chaud
        .
        C’est la lutte finale
        Groupons-nous, et demain
        L’Internationale
        Sera le genre humain ”
        + two-thirds more.

        Indeed, when asked my interests at a job interview, as a naive youthful enthusiast for the looming European Union I said “internationalism”, and was accused of being some kind of dangerous communist. I assured the employer that I was in favour of strictly capitalist internationalism, and managed to get the job,
        Years later he told me casually (as though it was an everyday opinion) that he thought we should have entered the Second World War on the side of Germany, but I never went quite as far as that ! He was a man in a position to be influential in Society, apparently perfectly respectable.

        I think what makes all the difference is if the “Empire” is reasonably democratic or not, at least internally within its separate states. The British Empire mostly was, and the European Union is too theoretically (though some of the eastern members are showing signs of waivering). The Third Reich wasn’t.

  4. Rox

    It amazes me how stupid almost all politicians can be from time to time.

    It seemed obvious to everybody except the Conservatives who wrote their manifesto that OAPs and their families would not like the idea of giving up all the value of their house except £100,000 . Despite what one of them was pretending in retrospect, we all know that a lot of Conservative OAPs live in houses worth a lot more than £100,000, and it will cost their children a lot more than that to buy one for themselves.

    I am thoroughly confused I admit, but I believe this deal may actually be better than what is already in place. However, don’t expect the OAPs to weigh this up ! All the Conservatives have done is to draw attention to the whole sorry business, while Corbyn promises everybody everything.

    Enter the Manchester bomber, possibly about as welcome as the Argentinan invasion of the Falkland Islands.

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