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  1. Rox

    If the United Kingdom has to leave the European Union because the latter is a Revived Roman Empire, can you explain please why Germany doesn’t have to leave the European Union because the latter is a Revived Roman Empire ?

    1. Stephen

      That’s up to the Germans, dear Rox. If it falls as a result of Brexit, we may be doing them all a favour.

      1. Rox

        I see. So you would want to break it all up completley.

        But what about Germany and Italy as “nations” ? They both only date from about 1860. Should they be broken up too ? Like Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia have been.
        Of perhaps the true place of Germany it united with Austria — it’s difficult to define a difference between them, especially comparing Austria to Bavaria.

        Scotland is decidedly a nation, and so is Catalonia. Should they remain shackled to England and Spain ?
        You may say that this is up to the Scots and the Catalans, but what about the English and the Spanish who may want to remain shackled to Scotland and Catalonia. This whole question of how to divide the world into nations has taxed brilliant and well-intentioned minds, as well as tyrants, for centuries.

        1. Mark Jones

          God’s plan after the Tower of Babel was for each ethnic group to have their own territory for themselves, to live and govern themselves as they see fit. As Stephen’s, and others’, videos show, the EU parliament building is modelled on Breugel’s painting of the Tower of Babel, revealing (“hidden in plain sight”) the EU agenda of reversing God’s separation of different ethnic groups, forcing them to live together even though they have little in common. “Unity in diversity”, etc, like the slogans in Orwell’s 1984, are utter bs, but they think that if they repeat them often enough, and dissenters are suppressed by being screamed at as being “racists”, “xenophobes” etc, people will go along with it. But you can’t fool all the people all the time, hence Brexit, Trump, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders, etc. Many decent people, politically voiceless for so long, have had enough.

          1. Rox

            Oh well, if it’s “ethnic group” then Germany and Austria will have to be united, together with most of Switzerland. Belgium will have to be distributed between France and the Netherlands. President Wilson just didn’t go far enough. The United Kingdom will have to be split up, both along traditional lines, and with new ethnic city-states in places like Southall and Bradford.

            I suppose Yugoslavia will have to be united again, because they are mostly the same ethnic group, separated by religion and history. That could prove to be very tricky. The same is true of reuniting India and Pakistan, although on the other hand, several regions of India (particularly in the south) could be split off from the north — some of the best work of the British Empire undone.

            Who is going to organise all this, Mark ? God has shown little sign of getting it done, and neither the United Nations nor most of the inhabitants want it done.

          2. Mark Jones

            well, Rox, many, many (most?) things happen in this world that are not God’s will, although any serious theologian would have to admit that He ALLOWS them to happen. The message of the Fall in the Garden of Eden is that man insisted on going his own way, and doing things his way, seduced by the devil who rules this world (albeit under the ultimate authority of God). The Bible says that one day Jesus will return and put this mess right, I and many others believe this Day may be not too far away, we may well be in the end of the end days (the end days have lasted 2,000 years or so since Jesus was taken up to heaven). The Bible says He will rule with a rod of iron, injustice, crime, greed, etc etc etc will not be tolerated. One of the conditions of His return is that the Gospel will be preached to all nations (ie ethnic groups), some say this has been accomplished, or very nearly. EVERYONE will have a chance to hear the Gospel and respond in repentance, and will have no excuse. If you spurn God’s offer of forgiveness, then its the high jump for you, I’m afraid, God will ultimately judge, and RIGHTEOUSLY. You have been on this site long enough to know and have heard the Gospel, I would have thought(?), Rox, what is YOUR response?

          3. Rox

            The Gospel is certainly available to all ethnic groups in Europe already, and I really don’t see the relevance of all this to the European Union, whether we are in it or not.

            Is this Jesus ruling with a rod of iron the same one who is normally depicted as so loving and kind, and saying wise things ? It’s a contrast. Suffer the little kids to come unto me, give them some cake, watch for the greedy ones, bash them with an iron bar ? That doesn’t sound much like Jesus.

            In Psalm 2, the Lord saith “unto me” among other things :
            “Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron”.
            It’s not clear who this is being addressed to, but apparently to the psalmist. The Lord has said to him “you are my son, this day I become your father” (REB), that is to say, you are favoured by me, not literally my son. Kindly cockney policemen call their mates “Son”. I suppose the idea is that his psalms will continue to have influence on earthly rulers to the furthest ends of the earth, which is true, but I don’t think it can all be taken too literally.

            Nobody takes the Book of Revelation literally ! That is where this AV ” rod of iron” also appears.
            ” And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. ”

            Hmm.
            But I missed out the bit before. The woman has a crown of 12 stars. Just like the flag of the European Union ! Could this be significant ? Could the red dragon with seven heads have been the USSR, turned towards Europe and headed by Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Kaliningrad ? (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine would have two horns each, the others only one). The woman might flee into the forsaken wilderness of Britain after Brexit. But I think this is probably a bit far-fetched.

            You mentioned Donald Trump. On 22nd July he made a vow of what he would do if elected :
            “The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon, and I mean very soon, will [sic] come to an end.”
            Now, him and his immediate followers I can imagine with rods of iron, but I don’t know how successful they are going to be. It seems very ambitious.
            You mentioned Geert Wilders. The Dutch are proud that decent people outvoted him.

          4. Stephen

            The Lord Jesus is not one-dimensional. The key is this verse:
            1Peter 5:5b God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
            The Lord is gracious to repentant sinners, shoing them mercy and salvation.
            He comes with a rod of iron against the elites, the rulers of earthly empires.
            Not that hard, is it?
            Revelation is indeed partly allegorical. ‘Babylon’ means ‘Rome’ and the ‘Roman Empire’ for instance. ‘Stars’ are angels, some good, the fallen or falling ones demonic, and so on. So you can take it all literally, but allegorically where needed.

          5. Rox

            Good. I think I am more like a child than like the ruler of an earthly empire.

            What about the red dragon ? Am I getting warm ? I suppose it could be Wales. Compared to Ireland and Scotland, it has been very docile in recent centuries and decades. I don’t think there is anything in Revelation about a unicorn.

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