Mar 14

Abortion Bill passes as Tory MPs stand by

Diana Johnson's Abortion Bill passed as Tory MPs stood by

Diana Johnson’s Abortion Bill passed as Tory MPs stood by

A Parliamentary Abortion Bill to repeal laws against the practice was given a First Reading in the House of Commons yesterday (13th March 2017).

The Ten Minute Rule Bill abolishes Sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.  See how that matters here.  (All our links open automatically in a new tab).  By so doing it legalises abortion up to birth  The Hansard record of the debate is in this link.

Diana Johnson’s Reproductive Health (Access to Terminations) Bill was passed by 172 votes to 142.

Even the title of the bill is deceptive.  This is not about ‘Reproductive Health’, ante-natal clinics etc.  It is not even about ‘access’ to ‘terminataions’, or abortions, to avoid the weasel word.  The bill simply makes abortion, all abortion, fully legal.  If Diana Johnson was honest, the bill would be called the ‘Decriminalisation of Abortion Bill.’

But 180 Conservative MPs were in the House and stood by as the most extreme pro-abortion bill in a generation passed its first Parliamentary hurdle.

Just thirteen minutes later these Tory faithful voted for the Government’s Brexit Timetable motion.

(See how your MP voted on the abortion bill, the timetable motion and the two Brexit votes on our page lsiting all MPs votes here.)

Abortion Bill could have been killed off

Maria Caulfield MP opposed abortion on-demand

Maria Caulfield MP opposed abortion on-demand

Those MPs, among them pro-life stalwarts, could have killed off Diana Johnson’s Bill at a stroke.

Among them was Commons Whip Guto Bebb.  Mr Bebb wrote to a constituent, a Christian Voice member, to say the Bill was going nowhere anyway.  The Government would never give it time and never allow it to pass.  Another MP said ‘I generally avoid’ Ten Minute Rule Bills.

But the passing of the Johnson Bill has encouraged the abortion promoters in the House of Commons.  It would have sent the pro-death advocates a strong signal had Mr Bebb and his colleagues simply gone through the ‘No’ lobby.  Many on the Labour Front Bench voted ‘Aye’ to the Bill.  Even Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell thought killing unborn children was in some way ‘socialist’

Meanwhile, 74 of the 92 Tory MP’s who are members of the Government stood by.  They included Theresa May, David Davis, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, Liz Truss and Justine Greening.

False arguments

A Ten Minute Rule Bill is proposed and then opposed.  Each speech has a maximum length of ten minutes.  There is no further debate.  The opposing speech, in this case by Maria Caulfield, is followed by the vote.  In the time available, Miss Caulfield was unable to speak about the humanity of the child in the womb, and how anachronistic abortion is in the light of modern medicine and imaging.  Instead, she spent her time countering the false arguments of Miss Johnson.

For some reason, Diana Johnson’s speech reminded this author of a line from a song by Steven Stills: ‘Forty nine reasons all in a line, All of them good ones all of them lies’.  Click here for the debate.

And the inaction of the 180 calls to mind that quote attributed to Edmund Burke: ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing’.

Diana Johnson’s Bill is now scheduled for a Second Reading on Friday 24th March.  The Bill is at the end of a long queue.  It may get nowhere on that day, but those advocating the most extreme pro-abortion bill for a generation have had a significant boost to their campaign.  Moreover, it was all because 180 Conservative MPs could not be bothered to oppose evil and walk through a lobby.

Scroll down for the Roll of Honour and the List of Shame!  

The complete list of how all MPs voted on Monday 13th March 2017 listed alphabetically is here.

Roll of Honour

These are the Conservative MPs who voted against the Johnson Bill as well as voting for the Brexit Timetable Motion 13 minutes later.  If your MP is among them, please email your MP (Click Here) to express your gratitude and perhaps disappointment that not enough colleagues joined them.  We have separated Government from Backbenchers:


Dr Therese Coffey (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Environment)
rh Sir Michael Fallon (Secretary of State for Defence)
rh Dr Liam Fox (Secretary of State for International Trade and President of Board of Trade)
Robert Goodwill (Minister of State (Home Office) (Immigration))
rh Chris Grayling (Secretary of State for Transport)
rh Damian Green (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions)
r h Robert Halfon (Minister of State (Department of Education) (Apprenticeships etc)
rh Greg Hands (Minister of State (Department for International Trade))
Marcus Jones (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Communities)
Dr Phillip Lee (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Justice))
rh Mike Penning (Minister of State (Ministry of Defence))
Andrew Percy (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Communities )
Robert Syms (Lord Commissioner (HM Treasury) (Whip))
Ben Wallace (Minister of State (Home Office) (Security))
Rob Wilson (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Culture)

Conservative Backbenchers A – K

Adam Afriyie (Windsor)
Peter Aldous (Waveney)
Sir David Amess (Southend West)
Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne)
Richard Bacon (South Norfolk)
Sir Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk)
Mr. Richard Benyon (Newbury)
Andrew Bingham (High Peak)
Bob Blackman (Harrow East)
Victoria Borwick (Kensington)
Sir Julian Brazier (Canterbury)
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire)
Ms Fiona Bruce (Congleton)
rh Sir Simon Burns (Chelmsford)
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West)
David Burrowes (Enfield Southgate)
Sir William Cash (Stone)
Maria Caulfield (Lewes)
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham & Rainham)
Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire)
Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd)
Byron Davies (Gower)
Philip Davies (Shipley)
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth)
Chris Davies (Brecon & Radnorshire)
Michelle Donelan (Chippenham)
Mrs. Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire)
Steve Double (St Austell & Newquay)
Mrs Flick Drummond (Portsmouth South)
rh Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford & Woodford Green)

Charlie Elphicke (Dover)
Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley)
Suella Fernandes (Fareham)
rh Mark Field (Cities of London & Westminster)
Kevin Foster (Torbay)
rh Mark Francois (Rayleigh & Wickford)
Richard Fuller (Bedford)
Marcus Fysh (Yeovil)
John Glen (Salisbury)
Richard Graham (Gloucester)
James Gray (North Wiltshire)
Chris Green (Bolton West)

Luke Hall (Thornbury & Yate)
rh John Hayes (South Holland & the Deepings)
Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne & Sheppey)
Simon Hoare (North Dorset)
Philip Hollobone (Kettering)
Adam Holloway (Gravesham)
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot)
Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire)
Stewart Jackson (Peterborough)
Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire)
Bernard Jenkin (Harwich & North Essex)
Caroline Johnson (Sleaford & North Hykeham)
Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury & Atcham)
Seema Kennedy (South Ribble)
Julian Knight (Solihull)
rh Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire)

Conservative Backbenchers L – W

Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford)
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)
rh Sir Oliver Letwin (West Dorset)
rh Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East)
Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater & West Somerset)
Jonathan Lord (Woking)

David Mackintosh (Northampton South)
Mrs Anne Main (St Albans)
Scott Mann (North Cornwall)
Mark Menzies (Fylde)
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon & East Thurrock)
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills)
Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall)
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire)
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon)
rh Owen Paterson (North Shropshire)
Mark Pawsey (Rugby)
rh Sir Eric Pickles (Brentwood & Ongar)
Victoria Prentis (Banbury)
Mark Prisk (Hertford & Stortford)
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin)
Tom Pursglove (Corby)
Jeremy Quin (Horsham)
Will Quince (Colchester)
RH John Redwood (Wokingham)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset)
Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury)
Mary Robinson (Cheadle)
Andrew Rosindell (Romford)

Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire)
Henry Smith (Crawley)
rh Sir Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex)
rh Dame Caroline Spelman (Meriden)
Gary Streeter (South West Devon)
rh Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West)
Derek Thomas (St Ives)
Maggie Throup (Erewash)
Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon)
Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset & North Poole)
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire)
Mrs Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight)
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes)
Charles Walker (Broxbourne)
David Warburton (Somerton & Frome)
Chris White (Warwick & Leamington)
rh John Whittingdale (Maldon)
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire)
William Wragg (Hazel Grove)

Other Parties’ Backbenchers

These are MPs of other parties who voted against the Johnson Bill irrespective of how they voted on the Brexit Timetable Motion 13 minutes later.  If your MP is among them, please email your MP (Click Here) to express your gratitude.  (The SNP decided en masse to vote neither for nor against Diana Johnson.  That is because the 1861 Act does not apply to Scotland.)

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)
Ms Rosie Cooper (Lab, West Lancashire)
rh Nigel Dodds (DUP, Belfast North)
rh Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (DUP, Lagan Valley)
Mark Durkan (SDLP, Foyle)
Robert Flello (Lab, Stoke-on-Trent South)
Mrs Mary Glindon (Lab, North Tyneside)
Lady Lady Hermon (UU, North Down)
Ms Helen Jones (Lab, Warrington North)
Mike Kane (LAB, Wythenshawe & Sale East)
Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)
Rachael Maskell (LAB, York Central)
Ian Paisley (DUP, North Antrim)
Dr. John Pugh (LD, Southport)
Ms Margaret Ritchie (SDLP, South Down)
Gavin Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)
Jim Shannon (DUP, Strangford)
David Simpson (DUP, Upper Bann)
Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

List of Shame

These are the Conservative MPs who did not vote on the Johnson Bill but found time to vote for the Brexit Timetable Motion a mere 13 minutes later.  If your MP is among them, please email your MP (Click Here) to express your disappointment.  Again, we have separated Government from Backbenchers:

Government A – F

Ms Harriett Baldwin (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence))
Stephen Barclay (Lord Commissioner (HM Treasury) (Whip))
Gavin Barwell (Minister of State (Department for Communities and Local Govern)
Guto Bebb (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Wales Office) & Whip)
Ms Nicola Blackwood (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department of Health))
rh Karen Bradley (Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport)
Steve Brine (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))
rh James Brokenshire (Secretary of State for Northern Ireland)
Robert Buckland (Solicitor General (Attorney General’s Office))

rh Alun Cairns (Secretary of State for Wales)
rh Greg Clark (Secretary of State for Business)
Ms Tracey Crouch (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Culture)

rh David Davis (Secretary of State for Exiting European Union)
Ms Caroline Dinenage (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Education))
Ms Jackie Doyle-Price (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))
rh Sir Alan Duncan (Minister of State (Foreign and Commonwealth Office))
Philip Dunne (Minister of State (Department of Health))

Michael Ellis (Deputy Leader of House of Commons)
Ms Jane Ellison (Financial Secretary (HM Treasury))
Tobias Ellwood (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign and Commonwealth Office)
George Eustice (Minister of State (Department for Environment)
rh David Evennett (Lord Commissioner (HM Treasury) (Whip))

Government G – L

Mark Garnier (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for International Trade)
rh David Gauke (Chief Secretary to Treasury)
rth Nick Gibb (Minister of State (Department for Education))
rh Justine Greening (Secretary of State for Education)
Andrew Griffiths (Lord Commissioner (HM Treasury) (Whip))
rh Ben Gummer (Paymaster General and Minister for Cabinet Office)
Sam Gyimah (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Justice))

rh Philip Hammond (Chancellor of Exchequer)
rh Matt Hancock (Minister of State (Department for Culture)
Richard Harrington (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Work and Pensions
rh Sir Oliver Heald (Minister of State (Ministry of Justice))
Chris Heaton-Harris (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))
Damian Hinds (Minister of State (Department for Work and Pensions))
Kris Hopkins (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Northern Ireland Office))
rh Jeremy Hunt (Secretary of State for Health)
Nick Hurd (Minister of State (Department for Business)

Ms Margot James (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Business)
rh Sajid Javid (Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government)
rh Boris Johnson (Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Joseph Johnson (Minister of State (Department for Business & Dept of Education
rh David Jones (Minister of State (Department for Exiting European Union))
Andrew Jones (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport))

Simon Kirby (Economic Secretary (HM Treasury))

Mr. Mark Lancaster (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence))
rh Andrea Leadsom (Secretary of State for Environment)
rh Brandon Lewis (Minister of State (Home Office) (Policing and Fire Service))
rh David Lidington (Lord President of Council and Leader of House of Commons)

Government M – W

Paul Maynard (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport))
rh Sir Patrick McLoughlin (Chancellor of Duchy of Lancaster)
rh Anne Milton (Treasurer of HM Household (Deputy Chief Whip)
Ms Penny Mordaunt (Minister of State (Department for Work and Pensions))
David Mowat (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department of Health))
rh David Mundell (Secretary of State for Scotland)

Ms Sarah Newton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Home Office))
Ms Caroline Nokes (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Work and Pensions
Jesse Norman (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Business)

rh Priti Patel (Secretary of State for International Development)
Christopher Pincher (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))
rh Amber Rudd (Home Secretary)

Alok Sharma (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign and Commonwealth Office))
Chris Skidmore (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Cabinet Office))
Julian Smith (Vice Chamberlain (HM Household) (Whip)
Mark Spencer (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))
Rory Stewart (Minister of State (Department for International Development))
Mel Stride (Comptroller (HM Household) (Deputy Chief Whip)
Graham Stuart (Assistant Whip (HM Treasury))

Edward Timpson (Minister of State (Department for Education))
rh Elizabeth Truss (Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice)
Robin Walker (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Exiting European
Mr James Wharton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for International Devel)
rh Gavin Williamson (Parliamentary Secretary to Treasury and Chief Whip)
rh Jeremy Wright (Attorney General)

Backbenchers A – K

Nigel Adams (Selby & Ainsty)
Lucy Allan (Telford)
Heidi Allen (South Cambridgeshire)
Stuart Andrew (Pudsey)
Edward Argar (Charnwood)
Steve Baker (Wycombe)
John Baron (Basildon & Billericay)
Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley)
James Berry (Kingston & Surbiton)
Jake Berry (Rossendale & Darwen)
Nick Boles (Grantham & Stamford)
Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West)
rh Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire)

Neil Carmichael (Stroud)
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk)
Alex Chalk (Cheltenham)
Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds)
James Cleverly (Braintree)
Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds)
Damian Collins (Folkestone & Hythe)
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth Sutton & Devonport)
Robert Courts (Witney)
Geoffrey Cox (Torridge & West Devon)
rh Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
Mims Davies (Eastleigh)
Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire)
Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon)
Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere)
Richard Drax (South Dorset)
Graham Evans (Weaver Vale)

Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire)
George Freeman (Mid Norfolk)
rh Sir Edward Garnier (Harborough)
Nusrat Ghani (Wealden)
rh Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham & Amersham)
rh Michael Gove (Surrey Heath)
Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone & The Weald)
rh Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)

Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon)
rh Mark Harper (Forest of Dean)
Ms Rebecca Harris (Castle Point)
Trudy Harrison (Copeland)
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire)
James Heappey (Wells)
Peter Heaton-Jones (North Devon)
rh Nick Herbert (Arundel & South Downs)
George Hollingbery (Meon Valley)
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk & Malton)
Ben Howlett (Bath)

Andrea Jenkyns (Morley & Outwood)
Gareth Johnson (Dartford)
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne)

Backbenchers L – Z

Ms Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire)
Ms Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West)
Jack Lopresti (Filton & Bradley Stoke)
Ms Karen Lumley (Redditch)

Craig MacKinlay (South Thanet)
Alan Mak (Havant)
Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire)
Dr Tania Mathias (Twickenham)
Karl McCartney (Lincoln)
Stephen McPartland (Stevenage)
Johnny Mercer (Plymouth Moor View)
Huw Merriman (Bexhill & Battle)
rh Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke)
Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase)
rh Nicky Morgan (Loughborough)
James Morris (Halesowen & Rowley Regis)
David Morris (Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Ms Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot)

Robert Neill (Bromley & Chislehurst)
David Nuttall (Bury North)
rh George Osborne (Tatton)
Neil Parish (Tiverton & Honiton)
John Penrose (Weston-Super-Mare)
Ms Claire Perry (Devizes)
Chris Philp (Croydon South)
Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane)
Dominic Raab (Esher & Walton)
David Rutley (Macclesfield)

Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury)
rh Keith Simpson (Broadland)
Royston Smith (Southampton Itchen)
Miss Chloe Smith (Norwich North)
Amanda Solloway (Derby North)
Andrew Stephenson (Pendle)
John Stevenson (Carlisle)
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South)
Bob Stewart (Beckenham)
Julian Sturdy (York Outer)
Rishi Sunak (Richmond Yorks)
rh Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon)

Kelly Tolhurst (Rochester & Strood)
David Tredinnick (Bosworth)
Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge & Malling)
rh Andrew Tyrie (Chichester)
rh Edward Vaizey (Wantage)
Shailesh Vara (North West Cambridgeshire)
rh Mrs Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet)
Helen Whately (Faversham & Mid Kent)
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley)
Craig Williams (Cardiff North)
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes)
Mike Wood (Dudley South)
Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon)

Deuteronomy 27:25  Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen. 

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  1. Mark Jones

    Hurry up & get on with it guys, your god Molech is hungry and thirsty!

    1. Stephen

      Every pagan culture has practiced child sacrifice. You are right, abortion is our version of it. And Satan I believe draws power from the shedding of innocent blood.

  2. Rox

    If the bill was aborted on 24th March, presumably you would be in favour of that.

  3. Bob Hutton

    Expanding the size of Auschwitz to make the killings more numerous and “efficent”.

    1. Rox

      That was not sentence. What exactly are you trying to say ?

      How many abortions were done at Auschwitz ? Why were they done ?

      1. [email protected]

        I think that Bob Hutton’s point was that – without in any way, shape or form disrespecting the Shoah – mass abortion as a form of birth control is, of itself, a silent ‘holocaust’.

        1. Rox

          Then you can use “holocaust” for anything you want, for example the killing of innocent civilians in Aleppo and Mosul, or even people who died in Fukushima, or people in England dying from air pollution. Without a Jewish element, the word is inappropriate. It originally referred to a sacrifice in a Jewish altar, and it has been irretrievably linked in recent decades to the persecution of Jews.

          As for Hutton’s “more numerous and efficient”, that would be achieved by killing the mother along with the foetus. Two birds with one unsophisticated stone.

          1. Mark Jones

            approx 200,000 babies are aborted, causing extreme pain to the baby (despite the lies of the pro-abortion lobby) every year in the UK, Rox (approx 550 per day). Over 56 MILLION babies aborted in the USA since Roe v Wade in 1973. Very few of these abortions are to defend the life of the mother, many are simply because the baby is unwanted and inconvenient. Pity the women involved didn’t think of that before they opened their legs. I personally would have no problem with describing this as a “silent holocaust”. (But imo I suppose you could use the word “holocaust” for any mass killing of the innocent, if you insist). “Silent” holocaust since there is very little outcry (or effective outcry against anything much: most people, it seems to me, the few who can be bothered to keep up to date with what’s going on in the world, just yawn and go back to EastEnders, X-Factor, etc. (a favourite topic of conversation at a so-called “church” I used to attend was the latest manufactured sob story of some X-Factor contestant and wasn’t it wonderful they had overcome their setbacks, that God was in it etc: I could scarcely believe it, but eventually it became obvious that nothing was going to change there, I was faced, not for the first time, with the choice of the frog in the kettle).

            Now, as Stephen’s article above describes, they want to make it easier. “Can hell burn hot enough?” is my feeling on the matter (and quite a few other matters, come to that).

          2. Rox

            “Very little outcry”

            In the USA, it is a major political issue, and doctors’ lives are sometimes in danger from activists.
            It’s been like this for years .

            Hilary Clinton was rumored among extreme right-wing Christians to be very much in favor of abortion at the very last minute — totally untrue, I’m sure.

            Trump, of course, presented himself where necessary as a Bible-believing born-again Christian, equally untrue, I’m sure. There people will believe anything,

            ” There is no “health condition” a mother could have that requires her to half deliver her child so it can be injected with poison that stops its heart from beating. ”

            Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441276/hillary-clinton-partial-birth-abortion-defending-indefensible

          3. Stephen

            I think you will find that children’s lives are in much greater danger from the abortionists. (‘Abortionists’ is the word, actually. ‘Doctors’ save lives.)

          4. Rox

            Pathologists are doctors who don’t save lives.
            “Abortionists” tends to refer to unqualified practitioners, who tend to spring up if legal outlets are not available.

            The distinction between abortionist and legal clinic is the same as between prostitute and dating agency.

          5. Stephen

            No, an abortionist is someone who carries out abortions. A taxidermist does taxidermy, a lobbyist is someone who lobbies, an artist does art, and so on. Here is a list of ‘ists’.

          6. Rox

            So taking words from your list and applying your simple logic, an ageist is somebody who ages, a communist is someone who communes, a dentist is someone who dents, a gnomist is obviously someone who gnomes, a backlist is somebody who backles, a methodist is someone who methods, or keeps to an unusually well-defined method ? I think there must be something more to understanding the current use of these words than that.

            Let’s call in the “New Oxford Dictionary” (© 1998), which is much bigger than my more familiar Concise Oxford Dictionary (© 2011).
            “Abortionist: A person who carries out abortions (often applied to someone not working in a hospital, or to convey disapproval of abortion). ”
            Collins Dictionary ( © 2008)
            “Abortionist: A person who performs abortions, especially illegally.”

            A gnomist is a writer of pithy and sententious sayings embodying some moral sentiment or precept, generally in verse.

            A word’s not always what it seems,
            The meaning’s what each speaker deems.
            But if Mark’s not clear, it’s wise to look
            At the general opinion, in a book.

          7. Stephen

            ‘Abortionist: A person who performs abortions …’ Yes, of course the word as I use it conveys disapproval.

          8. Rox

            You are probably a communist.

  4. Mark Jones

    so Stephen is a communist because he opposes abortion? what are you on boy?

  5. Rox

    Mark, you are missing the point as so often.

    1) I suggested that the word “abortionist” usually applies something less legal than a doctor performing legal abortions in a clinic [indeed, it turns out that large editions of both Collins and Oxford dictionaries agree with me on that ] .
    2) Stephen referred me to a list of words ending “ist” , which you can read for yourself here, and I suggest you do :
    His point was that, “A taxidermist does taxidermy, a lobbyist is someone who lobbies, an artist does art, and so on.” Apparently it’s as simple as that, and you can just remove the “ist from any word on Stephen’s list to find out what a person does.
    3). This is not so. An “ageist” is not simply somebody who ages, because we all age. The word ageist has come to mean somebody who discriminates against old (or presumably possibly young) people, based on their age, the word being based on sexist (which is not just somebody who does sex, come to that).
    You can read my other examples, although I didn’t think it necessary to spell them out in such detail.
    4) As Stephen does commune, for example at Holy Communion (as far as I know), this makes him a communist. When up in the mountains, he might commune with nature. But of course, Stephen and I know that the word usually has a quite different meaning. That is the point.

    I am on commonsense, and reading what has been written and doing my best to understand it before commenting on it.

    In the words of the gnomist,
    ” A word’s not always what it seems,
    The meaning’s what each speaker deems.
    But if Mark’s not clear, it’s wise to look
    At the general opinion, in a book. ”

    Please see my comments at the end of “Manchester United goes Gay with Stonewall” (10 March) and “Woman accused of raping a man is a man”(8 March). You always seem to miss such comments as Christian Voice marches on. You can still get to them by clicking on those dates on the calendar for March. Or here :
    We await your replies there, which you can still make, the same as usual.

    1. Stephen

      This is getting boring now. Come on, move along, nothing to see here.

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